Attacks on the NHS

[Telstar5]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health

I know that there's been talks of a nationalised healthcare service in America, and the republicans have gone loopy. Normally I wouldn't care, but what takes the biscuit is our health service being called 'evil', with some made up facts and figures in television adverts currently being run in the states.

Can I ask; what is America's fucking problem with free healthcare? The schools are controlled by the state. So are the police departments and fire stations - oh, and the banks, too - healthcare is simply the next step.

These adverts claim that you will not be treated if you are not considered valuable enough - let me correct this by stating that the NHS is primarily used as an emergency medical service rather than a health insurance company. If you need a hip replacement because you have arthiritus, you will have to wait. If someone has fallen down the stairs and broken their hip, then it will be replaced the same day because it is considered an emergency, therefore the arthiritus patient will need to wait.

Let me tell you all a story; when I was young and living in the states, I fell off a stool and sliced my tounge. My mother couldn't just take me to the hospital, oh no, I had to wait as she called the insurance company to make sure which hospital to go to. Fair enough, I was seen very quickly, but the five minute trip to the doctors cost my mother $400. Want more? When I was about to go into school, I had to have an injection for hepatitus B. Fourty god damn bucks - and if mum couldn't pay, then I couldn't go to school.

The American system of healthcare is so inhumane. What kind of society is based off of ability to pay rather than need? A child died of a tooth abcess in the richest country in the world because his mother couldn't afford the medical bill. They happily let people with cancer die because the money in their insurance policy has dried up. What kind of disgusting greedy system is this?

Good fucking lord, I'm pissed off. I seriously hope nobody here agrees with the right-wing crap coming out of the republicans this week.

Phew... well, there's some steam let off. What do you all think about Obama's new healthcare ideas?

[Gan]

What exactly is the purpose of having national healthcare? Why are people against it?
Schools are strict when it comes to medical issues, they will not risk having a liability that could infect others.
The medical system is kind of like our food system. If you can't pay for it, you go without. Of course, there are some free hospital and food shelter services mostly hosted by Christian organizations.
You target the Republicans as a whole when you come to this argument, are you right in saying that the whole party believes in the same way?

I would like a bit more information of Obama's ideas and what supposedly the Republicans believe in as I know very little about these. I should probably visit CNN more often.


-Gandolf

[Silverwind]

Phew... well, there's some steam let off. What do you all think about Obama's new healthcare ideas?

I don't, and seeing how it enrages you I suggest you do the same. Spend more time making games instead, nothing can take the merriment from that. (except Java)

Once again btw, a tale of un-justice fails in comparison to that of an Irish parallel: I once went to get my ears checked after they started routinely leaking goo only to discover that the consultation alone was several hundred Euro and that I'd be placed on a 12 month waiting list before seeing a doctor. Needless to say my ears are still gooey.

The moral of the story is: Be thankful for what you have, there's always worse. And also: Turn down any free Irish vacation offers.

[Telstar5]

I once went to get my ears checked after they started routinely leaking goo only to discover that the consultation alone was several hundred Euro and that I'd be placed on a 12 month waiting list before seeing a doctor. Needless to say my ears are still gooey.

I'm not sure how the Irish healthcare system works. Is it nationalised like it is on the mainland, or do you have health insurance?

You target the Republicans as a whole when you come to this argument, are you right in saying that the whole party believes in the same way?

Republicans are the ones coming out with this twoddle. Democrats are the ones who want healthcare reform. If they succeed, then I fully congratulate the democrats for finally getting a real taxpayer funded healthcare system. I'm sure there are a few republicans that believe in the idea that access to free healthcare is a right - but then again, most American people are against the idea of national healthcare in the states because it costs them money, and they believe that something being made free will always be used because it is free. If there was a shop giving away free lightbulbs, I'd only visit it if I needed a lightbulb. Likewise, if I'm healthy, I won't need to see a doctor. The purpose of a nationalised healthcare system is to offer medical treatment to those who cannot afford it, either because they don't earn enough or they are out of work. How right is it that a government can just leave people to decay without taking responsibility? Being forced to PAY to have a mandatory injection JUST TO GO TO SCHOOL? Ridiculous. The school should pay for the injection, or a nationalised hospital should.

The medical system is kind of like our food system. If you can't pay for it, you go without. Of course, there are some free hospital and food shelter services mostly hosted by Christian organizations.

How cute. Hey, I can't afford food this month, I guess I'll starve. It shouldn't be up to Christian organisations to provide healthcare and food to the poor, it ought to be provided by the government at the taxpayer's expense. Sure, there's the benefits system in America, but I know for a fact that it's nowhere near substantial enough for a person to survive off of.

If a kid is born in Detroit, does it make his life worth less than a kid born in San Francisco? Not really. They both deserve equal medical treatment, regardless of ability to pay.

[WarHampster]

People are against nationalized healthcare because they are greedy bastards who only care about themselves.

[GMG Tim]

My problem with "Obama's" Health Care plan is-- well, I don't know what the plan is. I understand what they're proposing, but as far as implementation goes, the details thus far have been sketchy. Obama has done little to address it head-on, issues of funding, coverage, and [too much?] competition with the private sector are potential problems that our President seems to have answered with vague rhetoric at best.

Ghost

[GMG Tim]

You target the Republicans as a whole when you come to this argument, are you right in saying that the whole party believes in the same way?

No, but unfortunately the GOP seems to be headed by Palin and Limbaugh at the moment, and they're not portraying the best image of the party. Palin is concerned that Obama will start "death-panels," where he will choose who lives and who dies (which is completely ridiculous, his plan offers to cover "end of life consultations," where if you personally make the decision to end your life, and want to consult a doctor about it, it will be covered by the health care plan). Limbaugh "hopes President Obama fails," (why anyone would want America's leaders to fail is beyond me), and has been very vocal against nationalized health care, without much substance.

I agree that there are many intelligent, well-spoken Republicans out there, as well as Democrats. The problem is that the wing-nuts (ultra-liberals and ultra-conservatives) seem to be running the country's policies. It's really time for the moderates to find some common ground and push through a reasonable, cost-effective, and comprehensive health plan.

Ghost

[WarHampster]

My problem with "Obama's" Health Care plan is-- well, I don't know what the plan is. I understand what they're proposing, but as far as implementation goes, the details thus far have been sketchy. Obama has done little to address it head-on, issues of funding, coverage, and [too much?] competition with the private sector are potential problems that our President seems to have answered with vague rhetoric at best.

Ghost

I guess you're right about funding details being sketchy... I believe the idea is that most of the plan will be paid for through the optimization and or cutting of unnecessary/ unsuccessful programs, and of course by taxing the super-rich.

I don't see competition with private insurance as a bad thing... it will encourage private health insurance companies to lower their prices and offer better coverage. With no free state run plan, private companies can all charge exorbitant prices without offering good plans.

[Telstar5]

With no free state run plan, private companies can all charge exorbitant prices without offering good plans.

...which leads to millions of people living in illness.

I wonder how the CEOs of the insurance companies sleep at night, knowing that whatever price they charge, they are pricing someone out of the right to healthcare?

[Silverwind]

...which leads to millions of people living in illness.

I wonder how the CEOs of the insurance companies sleep at night, knowing that whatever price they charge, they are pricing someone out of the right to healthcare?

On solid gold pillows.

[Gan]

Hehe, QOTM.


-Gandolf

[Telstar5]

Jokes aside, an American friend showed me this article...

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/18/chemo.closet/index.html

Again, how is this happening in the world's richest country? Ah, of course... No money, no treatment.

It's a no-brainer. Socialised medicine works. Hey, did anyone mention the sheer amount of jobs that will be created by socialised healthcare?

[Gan]

You use that term too frequently and quite inaccurately:

Again, how is this happening in the world's richest country?

You and me could be at Subway, you may have $1 and I have 1 more than you. Just because I'm richer doesn't mean that I can afford a 1/2 foot long sub.
America tries, only so much people live in poverty, but the same is for other countries.  


-Gandolf

[Telstar5]

There's a big difference between a sandwich and healthcare.

I'm willing to bet that if you only have two dollars and you were desperate to be treated for a chest infection, you'd defend the idea of socialised medicine.

[WarHampster]

Gan is right... just because America is the richest country in the world doesn't mean that the government can throw money around... we're in what, a bigillion dollar deficit? Thats why the new health care system needs to be well planned and executed, hopefully to the point that it will "pay for itself".