Avisaria - Mac

[Charlo]

what kind of advanced features does it need? you can make great games now

Better sprite support, simple scripting things like arrays and functions, faster overall processing, maybe a more object-oriented approach overall.

A significant increase in processing speed alone would make platformers and shooters possible, not to mention other games.  Right now even grid-based games can get laggy with too much processing.

SC is definitely ahead of GM in this regard.

Anyway, I think we're derailing the thread a little bit.  

[GMG Mike]

Gandolf - what is this alleged project that you made in SC that's so slow?

You made some kind of server in SC and it was slow, or something like that.

v2.0a6 introduced some massive scripting speed improvements, anywhere from 50% - 300% faster depending on the code. This is in addition to the improvements introduced with v2.0a3 when we switched to byte code.

I would say the current bottleneck is now the graphics engine, but I've already shown that OpenGL has the possibility to solve this.

[Gan]

Athoria ran crazy/laggy slow. Eq helped me build it ages ago but I can't find the file anywhere. The Sc Mmo Engine was pretty slow but was usable, just not good enough for an actual MMORPG. The Sc Mmo Engine should be in Sc's code section.


-Gan
P.S. Thinking on it, Athoria's map was gigantic and drawn all at once. So probably not logic code so much then Sc's drawing engine.
This thread really is getting off-track.

[GMG Mike]

As far as the SC MMO engine goes, it looks like that it was made in 2008, so unless you've touched it since then, the following advancements would probably make it fully usable today:

- Real string arrays
- Bytecode system (v2.0a3)
- Even Faster Scripting (v2.0a6)
- Socket Groups

I just recompiled your Drawing Speed Test in v2.0b1. My time (C2D MacBook Pro) went from 545 ticks to 374 ticks. This is using DRAWRECTs still so the only speed improvement is the new "Even Faster Scripting" from v2.0a6. If you change it to DRAWPIXEL it goes down to 256 ticks. You mentioned at the time being able to do this in VB.NET at 20 FPS, I'd like to see that exe...

[EqwanoX]

Anyway, I think we're derailing the thread a little bit.  

dont change the subject, i havent proved you have no idea what your talking about yet

Better sprite support, simple scripting things like arrays and functions, faster overall processing, maybe a more object-oriented approach overall.

A significant increase in processing speed alone would make platformers and shooters possible, not to mention other games.  Right now even grid-based games can get laggy with too much processing.

SC is definitely ahead of GM in this regard.

1) sc HAS arrays and functions
2) sc supports 1000 on screen sprites, i made a test example of 1000 sprites(WITH masks) and it ran fairly well.... on my g4
3) shooters and platformers ARE possible, have you played time trial 6 or the mario 2 demo? those run smooth and they were done in 1.5!!!
4) if your game is laggy its from shoddy coding, you have to syncronize sprite movements

Athoria ran crazy/laggy slow. Eq helped me build it ages ago

i remember that, that was done in 1.5, 2.0 is so much faster, and thats true (about the map) it was like 15 megs

[Charlo]

dont change the subject, i havent proved you have no idea what your talking about yet
1) sc HAS arrays and functions
2) sc supports 1000 on screen sprites, i made a test example of 1000 sprites(WITH masks) and it ran fairly well.... on my g4
3) shooters and platformers ARE possible, have you played time trial 6 or the mario 2 demo? those run smooth and they were done in 1.5!!!
4) if your game is laggy its from shoddy coding, you have to syncronize sprite movements

I think you're talking about SC, I'm talking about GM.  Shoddy coding is a requirement in GM because of the limitations of the language.  

[Silverwind]

What game are you trying to make Charlo? If SC can't handle it I think you might be setting your goals a little too high. Software isn't the only limitation in game design you know, your abilities and experience are as well. GM and SC can do great things, and SC in particular can easily accommodate the development of a commercial quality game.

Check out the latest RPG engines me and Eq are tinkering with:

GM version by Silver: http://www.mediafire.com/?ljuijroigdj
SC version by Eq: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ddxnoo0lnn2/rpgfull.zip

EDIT:

Oh, the link for Eq's engine is dead. Fancy uploading it again Eq?

[Charlo]

Nobody finds out about my secret projects.  

In this case I'm comparing against windows game maker, which can make essentially any game with relatively little effort, while still leaving enough room to get into heavy-duty coding and advanced game design.  I used it for several years and it was much easier to implement your ideas.  

It seems like everybody is insinuating that I don't know what I'm talking about.  I know that people have done great and complicated things with GM and SC, but those programs are definitely not as expansive as windows GM is.  SC and GM require much more ingenuity to get to a playable finished product; it's almost like programming in a language and not using a game-making tool at all, since there is very little built-in to those programs besides the basics (sprites and scripting).  Windows GM much better fits people's ideas of a game-making program, which I think is the reason why it's insanely popular while our game making community can only muster up fifty members.  

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, SC and GM are great programs, but they don't make things as easy as most people would like.

[EqwanoX]

but thats on windows, and windows sucks

i remember seeing tutorials for the windows GM and it pretty much makes the game for you, you just select the game you want then import graphics, regardless i can program any features it has manually in sc

and sc is free.

[Silverwind]

In this case I'm comparing against windows game maker, which can make essentially any game with relatively little effort, while still leaving enough room to get into heavy-duty coding and advanced game design.  I used it for several years and it was much easier to implement your ideas.

Well I don't mean to sound doubtful, but I find it hard to believe that anything could be easier to work with than Mac GameMaker. It's entirely self explanatory in every way and boasts the simplest scripting syntax in the world. It's been years since I used Windows Game Maker but it certainly wasn't obvious or simple to me when I tried developing on it.

I've no doubt that Windows Game Maker is a more powerful tool, but that only brings me back to what I said earlier about software not being the only limitation in game design. The people who campaign for bigger and better often produce the least, whereas the born and bred game maker works with whatever he's got and "moves up" with experience.

I'd love to see what you made by the way.

[EqwanoX]

people who say sc and gm arent advanced enough never produce anything, while people who produce something never make that claim. it takes alot of creativity to design a game from beginning to end, and i think people lack that more than the ability to program. also to be a game designer the PROCESS of makeing the game has to be enjoyable otherwise it doesnt matter what language you use or how advanced it is youll never produce anything

[Tireas Dragon]

Well said Eq. But I think this topic has gone way off topic.

[Silverwind]

One more off-topic topic among the many, many off-topic topics.

[Gan]

Attributes work.


-Gan

[Silverwind]

What kind of attributes? Strength, dex and whatnot?