Topic:   The Pirate Party   (Read 11421 times)


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Telstar5


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2009, 09:58:34 AM »
Hey, now there's a thought; if the have representation in the European Union parliament, it means they have representation in Europe and not in America, so why bring up an issue that won't affect you in any way, shape or form?

Personally, I'd enjoy some freedom. The UK is shockingly bad for restrictions on just about everything imaginable. We can't smoke without being spat on, we can't drink without being scalded at, we can't eat without being told to lose weight, we can't have our own political opinions without being called a terrorist, we can't wear our shoes in the airports, Northern Ireland doesn't have the vote, teachers are allowed to starve children; on the note of education, the people here are so badly educated that they simply don't care for who is running the country, somehow the UK has shamed itself by electing the fascists into the European parliament... so, all things considered, would having some kind of freedom really hurt?


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2009, 12:19:17 PM »
Quote

How in the world does the GameMaker site contain inappropriate content!? There aren't even any ads, so there can't even be any accidental linking to bad sites. That is totally ridiculous!
I don't know Al, there's allot of creativity on your site... and that nude picture of 4.0...
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Al Staffieri


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2009, 05:34:18 PM »
http://www.pirate-party.us/platform

I disagree with almost all of it. Most of it makes no sense if you actually think about it. It sounds great for the younger generation who feel they should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want, but that will just cause chaos and problems for the entire society. Some of what they say contradicts itself.

Examples:
Right to Assemble and Right to Free Press say basically that anyone or group should be allowed to assemble anywhere and reporters should be allowed to go anywhere to report news with no restrictions. The news organizations should determine what should be reported. But Right to Privacy claims that all people have a right to privacy. So how do you allow anyone to go anywhere and film or report anything while being able to ever allow anyone to have privacy?

Let's suppose you are in a hotel. What is stopping someone from having hidden cameras watching you have sex, take a shower, whetever? Do you have a right to privacy? Or does anyone have a right to "report" the news anywhere they can find it? Oh don't worry, the news organizations will determine what is news, so everyone will be fine. Huh? You really believe that? And besides if someone has to determine what is appropriate, well... isn't that what the laws are for? So why do away with them? They say government should stay out of people's private affairs, but they think news organizations (and what determine's a news organization anyway?)
should be allowed to be in anyone's private affairs. They have a solution to that which is "News agencies which seek to misreport the news cannot be trusted to serve the best interests of the people", but how do you stop them from being news organizations? Wouldn't you need a law for that? Oops. You got rid of the law that stops anyone claiming they are news reporters from reporting whatever they want.


Next:
Rejection of the Concept of Online Piracy
They say it's not stealing because you didn't use "forceful and aggressive acts" to do it. Hmm... if it can only be stealing if "forceful and aggressive acts" then Bernie Madoff should be set free along with any other con artist who rips you off without forcefully doing so. They don't think file sharing should be banned because sharing information is a good thing. OK. so let's say you are a manager of a small electronics store. You take 2 or 3 ipods from the storage room and take them home. This must be OK since you didn't forcefully do it. Now of course you keep one and pass the other two out to friends. Afterall sharing is good and you aren't doing anything illegal since the laws allow you to do it as long as you didn't do it using "forceful and aggressive acts". And what constitutes "forceful and aggressive acts"? Wouldn't you need laws determining that?


Next is copyright and trademarks
They want copyrights to expire after 14 years. GameMaker was first released in 1995. This is now the 14th year it's been available. Do I now suddenly lose my copyright on it? What about big companies like Microsoft and Apple? Does Windows and MacOS now belong to everyone to sell as their own? How can that work? This then gets into trademarks too. With no trademarks how do you know what you are buying? Do you really think allowing anyone to make something and put another companies label on it is a good thing? What happens when you buy that ipod and it breaks a week later? You go back to Apple and try to get a new one because it's under warranty. Ooops. You can't because that one was actually made by someone else which can't be tracked because he passed his stuff off as being Apple products.

But hold on. Why did you buy the ipod in the first place? The guy who works at the store is handing them out for free. Oh but that was last week. He lost his job because the store wasn't making any money and had to close.

Please someone tell me how a society the way the Pirate Party wants can ever work. I just don't see it




WarHampster


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2009, 09:41:02 PM »
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It sounds great for the younger generation who feel they should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want, but that will just cause chaos and problems for the entire society.

What, you don't think that anarchy would be awesome!!??

I agree, the Pirate Party's platform is hypocritical and badly put together, people who support it don't actually read the whole thing - they just go crazy at the "no online surveillance!!!" part. I was just pointing out to Gandolf that their proposals will not give rapists a field day.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 09:43:09 PM by WarHampster »

Gan


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2009, 10:11:00 PM »
I was mostly referring to online perverts that would be uncontrolled due to no surveillance. When encountered, you'd usually report it but without any internet protection... you can see where that's going.

Though you guys did a great job of saying exactly what I was thinking when I read it. :) Sounds to me mostly like rebellious teenagers.


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2009, 10:23:42 PM »
The things done to rapists/molesters are done mostly to their non-computer lives, not to their internet usage. Anyone can jump on a computer, use a proxy and be anonymous, which makes tracking these people on the internet hard. So this wouldn't make them go crazy and just rape up the whole country, they're already going crazy right now.

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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2009, 05:16:13 AM »
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on the note of education, the people here are so badly educated that they simply don't care for who is running the country, somehow the UK has shamed itself by electing the fascists into the European parliament...
lol! Take a gander at Irish news sometime. The latest outrage is An Bord Snip: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0716/economy1.html

Basically their job is to tax just about everything in Ireland, except government officials, who's income is unaffected. And yes, the whole of Ireland thought it was a joke too.
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Telstar5


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2009, 06:16:28 AM »
Jesus. I'm usually a fan of cutbacks if it's shutting down Health and Safety organisations, but cutting special needs assistants and child benefits... Damn. If they're doing that to try and force people to work, they ought to realise that there really aren't any jobs...

Last time I checked, there were three vacancies in a 15 mile radius of my home, bearing in mind that the nearest big town is only 6 miles away...

It's not so much about rebellious teenagers, I do agree that a 14 year copyright is simply ridiculous, but cutting down online surveillence ought to be a priority. Gandolf, you sould like a classic case of someone who's caught the fear bug really bad.

News and media organisations work with the government to keep you afraid of everything. Back in the eighties, it was Russians and the Irish (no hard feelings, silver :P). Now it's Asians. Why?

To keep us afraid. When you're afraid, you turn to the people in charge, and then they will take charge of you. Basically, we live in a world where it's people are controlled on the basis of fear. You may not think you are being controlled, but when you think about the amount of power voting adults have given bad and corrupt governments, it makes you wonder what kind of life your children are going to have. You aren't concerned about rapists and pedophiles, you're scared of them; therefore, people will happily allow government agencies (state doctors, dustbin collectors, the prime minister) to intrude on every part of their life. Small wonder that organisations like the Pirate Party exist.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 06:22:24 AM by Telstar5 »


WarHampster


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2009, 06:59:00 AM »
Oh come on. It's not that bad (at least in the US).
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 07:00:39 AM by WarHampster »

Gan


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2009, 08:36:03 AM »
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Gandolf, you sould like a classic case of someone who's caught the fear bug really bad.
To me, authority isn't a restriction but a resource. Cutting down online surveillance is very much similar to cutting down the nightly police force. Of course some people may see the online surveillance as a restriction and that's why you want to cut it down. Though why do you see that as a restriction?
When your parents say no to you going to an all nighter party at a club you see them as a restriction. You wish so desperately to get rid of them and just to be able to go anyway. Though when your parents give you a new computer, shelter, or food; they are a wonderful resource.
You see something as a restriction when they block you or do something you do not like affecting you.
The police keep you safe during the night and day, what a powerful resource. Though when you're going 120mph on highway 77 with the whole police force and a helicopter behind you... you may just see them as a restriction.
You see online surveillance as a restriction, why? What are they blocking you from, what do you not want seen? Why is the Pirate Party trying to get rid of it? What are they wanting to do without being restricted by them? Sure it may be take some privacy away, not that there is very much privacy on the internet anyway... Though you shouldn't worry if you didn't do anything wrong.


-Gandolf
P.S. (That was a lovely rant, around 13 sentences per 1 sentence)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 08:38:00 AM by Gandolf »

WarHampster


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2009, 11:58:56 AM »
*sigh*

What if the police could search your house on a whim? What if they could wiretap your phone for no reason, or force you to empty your pockets without cause?

Nobody sane sees the responsible use of authority as a restriction, but when authority becomes too powerful and is able to violate your right to privacy, it becomes a bad thing. Telstar and I believe that governments wants to use online surveillance in a way that steps over the reasonable powers of authority, making "online surveillance" become something that no longer benefits people, instead turning it into a tool that the government uses to spy on individuals.  

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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2009, 12:25:31 PM »
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What if the police could search your house on a whim? What if they could wiretap your phone for no reason, or force you to empty your pockets without cause?
Then they better have a good reason. I wouldn't mind as long as it doesn't cause an inconvenience, though some times things get rough when you have to keep someone safe. As long as the police stay in bound by their rules, I'm pretty ok with it.

I believe the government wishes to use online surveillance to help track down terrorists, and anyone else that wishes or can do harm upon those they are meant to protect.
I doubt they would do it just for the heck of it...


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2009, 12:56:06 PM »
Exactly: theres nothing wrong with online surveillance as long as it doesn't cause inconvenience and doesn't step over the border of protecting the people to oppressing them.  

There is a much greater danger of online surveillance being used wrongly than the police being used wrongly.

For example, lets say the government tracks everyone who participates in p2p downloading (this is a very real possibility) and blacklists their IPs. Sure, they may find some people who are pirating software, but many people (myself included) use p2p downloading for legal purposes.

Telstar5


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2009, 01:59:59 PM »
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I believe the government wishes to use online surveillance to help track down terrorists, and anyone else that wishes or can do harm upon those they are meant to protect.
I doubt they would do it just for the heck of it...


-Gandolf

You are far too trusting of the government. 9/11 was not a terrorist attack; it was a move in a battle from a war the US government started in the cold war. The governments of the world use the concept of terrorism to justify the use of surveillance techniques. Again, why?

Because in a post-Thatcherist society, there is no more ideology. Instead, we have allowed it to turn into personality based politics, which is basically a dictatorship dressed in false democracy. The prime ministers and presidents adjust the world as they see fit; getting their reasons from pressure groups. Labour have engineered a racist society by not fighting the nationalists; the nationalist party blames unemployment on immigration, and instead of the government counter-blasting their argument, they start placing immigration quotas. Another example would be the ban on smoking indoors; the justification was protecting children and employees in the hospitality sector. Who engineered the concept of second hand smoke? Anti-smoking groups, who work with pharmaceutical companies to get the National Health Service to stock up on expensive nicotine replacement therapies (which do not work, for many millions of smokers, I might add).

Not only did the government listen to the concept of second hand smoke (which has been scientifically proven to be bullshit by the World Health Organisation), but they also took action and banned a legal habit from many places. The hospitality industry has been hit very badly, with hundreds of pubs, bars and clubs still closing daily. Why? To protect children and employees.

First of all, children aren't even allowed in pubs, bars and clubs, so what difference does that make? Employees is a different matter; however, if they were miners and started claiming compensation because they lost a finger while on the job, it would be pointed out that mining is a dangerous job, getting fingers chopped off or emphysema is a hazard of the job, and if they didn't feel up to it, they should have left their post a long time ago. Even then, enclosed smoking and non smoking sections should suffice and keep everyone happy.

If a government have something off the agenda and want to control it's people, they find some soy-drinking little Hitlers who want to ruin the planet, make everything expensive, trod on thousands of people, dress them up as a charity and let the news cameras roll.


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Re: The Pirate Party
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2009, 02:09:52 PM »
Their main goal is to keep you safe, if they have to restrict you to a 9pm bed time so no one gets killed for whatever reason; then that's what they will have to do.
Remember, there are many different types of oppression, though America is mainly against the oppression of basic human civil rights, freedoms, and tennants of the constitution.
There is nothing wrong with online surveillance even if it causes inconvieniance as long as it doesn't violate our basic human civil rights, which you can find in the U.S. of A's constitution. Have they stepped over that line?  

Edit: Ehm.. Telstar... The 9/11 was a terrorist attack, had nothing to do with the cold war. The cold war was over many years before. When the Berlin wall came down that was a signal of the end of the cold war and nuclear disarmorment. The 9/11 attack was an attack from the middle east. Ties to Al-Qaeda. Cold war was between U.S and the Soviet Union.
As for smoking... That is extremely harmful towards your lungs, second hand smoke has also been proven highly dangerous. I find it quite immature to purposely harm your body or mind of your own free will.


-Gandolf
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 02:25:00 PM by Gandolf »