Game Maker's Garage Forum

Game Maker's Garage => Trash Talk => Topic started by: Gan on November 26, 2008, 04:18:04 PM

Title: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 26, 2008, 04:18:04 PM
[size=16]
Avisaria
[/size]

This is the Avisaria thread. It will be used to show progress, get beta testers, brainstorm ideas, and to keep me on track. Here's a little background information:

Background: Avisaria was made a year or two ago, it was created with the Xtremeworlds engine. It grew to one of the best games on the site, it actually overgrew. There were 4 main people who controlled everything and developed it. Gandolf was the guy who originally first created it, he than recruited Satyricon from Oberin. Satyricon always had a dream of creating a online game, and with this once in a life time offer, he just had to go for it. After a long while of game developing, Satyricon and Gandolf decided to recruit other people to map maps and create other things in the world. They started a hiring thread that worked great. After a few mappers had came and gone, two were still left. Deitritius and Sneaky, were the most devoted mappers we hired. Deitritius helped develop our out dated site, and even moved on to create his own online game. Sneaky eventually faded away and we couldn't contact him sense. Sneaky was also our main programmer, he brought Avisaria to new heights. After a while, it was only Satyricon and Gandolf, they were creating Avisaria and had ran into unforseen problems. Graphic thieves, Satyricon started creating his own tileset and Xtremeworlds just wouldn't cut it, we needed things that it couldn't do. So than Gandolf decided to go into Visualbasic, create his own engine. (Hope you guys don't mind me talking in third person :P)

Current Progress: I have made the client/server which is only a chat program right now and I have created the tile system. I just need to stick the two together, modify, and I wil have a mini online game.

Ideas/Things to do:
-Eat some ramen noodles
-Fixed CPU Drainage
-Implement tile system into the server/client
-Make username/password recording system
-Get beta testers
-Make beta testers test it
-See how many players at a time can be on before it bugs/crashes

Beta Testers: (Currently don't need any)
1. Gandolf
2. Swamp
3. Mistron
4. Ghost
5. WarHampster
6. Gnome(Maybe)

Avisaria is only for Windows, eventually it should be for Mac too. So, I better show some pics before I am called a "Noob": (I will make a screencast once I get further down my todo list)

Chat Server/Client:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/mattcomwiz/chatclientservertest-2.jpg)

Tile System:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/mattcomwiz/tilesystemtest-1.jpg)


-Gandolf

Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Swamp7hing on November 26, 2008, 04:30:46 PM
Quote
Beta Testes

Immature lol's.

I'd be up for testing, as I have a PC. You'd better MacPort it, though!

Looking good, Gan.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 26, 2008, 04:59:17 PM
Quote
Immature lol's.
Oops, fixed.

Quote
I'd be up for testing, as I have a PC. You'd better MacPort it, though!
Awesome, and I will port it when portability comes out.
 
Quote
Looking good, Gan.
Thanks. ;) Expect more features by tomorrow.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gnome on November 26, 2008, 05:07:49 PM
Will windows gnome defender ever be done?  :(
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on November 26, 2008, 05:31:36 PM
I will beta test :)

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 26, 2008, 05:32:25 PM
Holy crud, I'm sorry Gnome. I forgot entirely about it. Though, if you can make each card's image on your game a bmp file and stick that with your game's code in a text file than I can make a windows version of it in 20 minutes. Or less.

Quote
I will beta test  
Thanks. :)

-Gandolf(Even fix that bug you have on a certain level)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gnome on November 26, 2008, 05:34:51 PM
Quote
Holy crud, I'm sorry Gnome. I forgot entirely about it. Though, if you can make each card's image on your game a bmp file and stick that with your game's code in a text file than I can make a windows version of it in 20 minutes. Or less.

-Gandolf(Even fix that bug you have on a certain level)

I'll get it to you as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 26, 2008, 08:03:48 PM
Cool, thanks Gnome.

Also, expect beta testing to begin tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Or anytime this week.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 26, 2008, 09:56:47 PM
Just fixed a huge bug in the server, client, and tile system. This bug would eat up 50% of your cpu. If you had all three running, your computer would crawl with all your cpu eaten away.

Every moment is a moment closer. :D I can't wait.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gnome on November 26, 2008, 10:11:49 PM
xtremeworlds looks cool, but is it for macs?
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 27, 2008, 08:42:08 AM
Sadly, no.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 27, 2008, 01:06:24 PM
Hey guys, I have some bad news. Satyricon and I decided to try out the server over long distances (He lives in Sweden). We couldn't get the client to connect.

We port forwarded his router and it gave us no mercy. If anyone has a few ports on their router forwarded or want to wait till I can get my router forwarded to test it. Please post here if you can be of any help. Whether you want to run the server or try to connect to mine(When I get it running).

Also, progress isn't halting in the least bit. I'm starting on the database system and username/password system.

-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on November 27, 2008, 02:24:13 PM
Quote
Hey guys, I have some bad news. Satyricon and I decided to try out the server over long distances (He lives in Sweden). We couldn't get the client to connect.

We port forwarded his router and it gave us no mercy. If anyone has a few ports on their router forwarded or want to wait till I can get my router forwarded to test it. Please post here if you can be of any help. Whether you want to run the server or try to connect to mine(When I get it running).

Also, progress isn't halting in the least bit. I'm starting on the database system and username/password system.

-Gandolf

I could setup my router to forward a few ports and test it out, just let me know. Do you use AIM? If so it might be easier to communicate there, just send me your SN over PM.

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 27, 2008, 02:46:50 PM
Awesome, thanks. Will pm you shortly. (Pmed you)


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on November 27, 2008, 05:15:38 PM
Quote
Awesome, thanks. Will pm you shortly. (Pmed you)


-Gandolf

Sorry, my windows machine isn't starting, so I can't test it. I'll send you back a PM if I can get it up and running.

ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 27, 2008, 07:25:59 PM
Ok. Thanks.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 27, 2008, 10:40:13 PM
I have more bad news. Turns out that tomorrow is Thanksgiving. I probably won't have very much time to work on Avisaria.

I guess we will see how much I get done. Beta testing might be delayed a day or two.

-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on November 27, 2008, 11:20:32 PM
I can wait...

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on November 28, 2008, 02:50:14 AM
Thanksgiving is tomorrow for you? It was today for me-- whereabouts you from? (Davis, California here)

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 28, 2008, 05:36:41 AM
Thanksgiving's now today. I live in Kansas.


-Gandolf
P.S. That blitz sale at Wal-Mart was crazy. My brother, sis, her husband, and I went through it in 25 minutes. Usually it takes an hour to get a loaf of bread.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Swamp7hing on November 28, 2008, 10:49:37 AM
Being Canadian, thanksgiving was over a while ago. Ahh well. How was it for you guys?
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 28, 2008, 01:16:52 PM
Wait. Thanksgiving was yesterday, but my family did it today for some reason.

Quote
How was it for you guys?

Very good. I cleaned dishes all morning so my brothers could have the "After Thanksgiving meal" dishes. Yeah, now I have a free hour doing whatever I want. (Avisaria!)

-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: alias on November 28, 2008, 04:39:46 PM
awwww man i dont even get thanksgiving, and my Chritmass is in like 35 degrees (celsius, thats 95 fahrenheit). holidays suck in australia
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on November 28, 2008, 06:47:18 PM
Quote
Being Canadian, thanksgiving was over a while ago. Ahh well. How was it for you guys?

Lots of delicious food. Can you ask for more?

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on November 28, 2008, 09:42:04 PM
Quote
Can you ask for more?
Yes! More progress. ;)

I successfully melded the tile engine into the client. Not only can you chat, but you can also walk around.
Only three(!) more things till it's beta testing time.
(1) Make the player's coordinates able to be sent to the server and to all clients so everyone can see each other.
(2) Finish registration/login to save coord/stats.
(3) Iron out bugs and make the interface look smoother/better.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: HarryCaray on November 28, 2008, 10:51:49 PM
I got drunk early thankgiving morning playing a lot of beer pong. Had a blast!

Too bad I can't test, don't have a PC!
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 02, 2008, 07:17:25 AM
Small news update:

So far I have made the client send the player's coordinates to the server, the server stores it and sends all online player coordinates to every client online.

This is where I ran into a bug. When all the coordinates are sent to the clients, there are 3 strange characters before the sent data. Now I think I've figured out the problem, and it should be fixed today.

Player-see-player should be finished today. Though the code is very messy and still in the alpha stage. I don't think the server could hold 50 people being online at once, it would be incredibly laggy and might freeze the server with all the data being sent and recieved. I will fix this. Eventually. When I rewrite the whole thing.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Teruri on December 02, 2008, 09:03:53 AM
Sounds cool. ^^ I could test it, but if you don't need any more beta testers.
(yes I have windows vista, but it sucks xD)

Too bad the character coordinate send thing doesn't work :S
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 02, 2008, 05:26:04 PM
We could use more beta testers, though you will have to wait a while longer.

Bad/Good News:
Good news - Players can see each other, talk, and move around. The server can hold much more than 50 people online at one time without lagging.

Bad news - The code is so messy, there are some bugs, and it is very unorganized. I am recoding it. Re-writing the whole thing. So It's going to be a while longer before it's actually ready to be beta test. At least a few weeks. I am also redoing the system of how it works to be more role play and server friendly.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: WarHampster on December 02, 2008, 07:02:41 PM
I would never have the patience to completely recode something like that :P

I can beta test if you need more people.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 03, 2008, 01:42:06 AM
Quote
We could use more beta testers, though you will have to wait a while longer.

I'll be installing WindowsXP on my MacBook soon, so maybe I can jump on board.

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 03, 2008, 05:46:42 PM
BETA BETA BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gnome on December 04, 2008, 02:39:12 PM
OFF TOPIC: How does a windows emulator work on a mac? can you switch back if you want to?


ON TOPIC: I could beta test but I have to use my moms computer which is so slow that it takes 45 minutes to turn on....  :(
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Swamp7hing on December 04, 2008, 02:47:13 PM
I use bootcamp, but you can get programs like parallels that allow for you to virtually open windows as another application on your desktop.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: WarHampster on December 04, 2008, 03:32:17 PM
I use crossover http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gnome on December 04, 2008, 03:39:18 PM
Wouldn't that open up viruses?
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 04, 2008, 04:10:42 PM
Quote
Wouldn't that open up viruses?

It could... but if they were written for Windows, why would it matter? You're still executing them in a UNIX filesystem/environment-- they'd have no effect.

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 04, 2008, 06:08:28 PM
LOL ghost :P

However, Keyloggers would still work as well as many forms of spyware... so DON'T USE IE6 :P

I am thinking that it would be funny to make a website to try to stop people from using IE6 by making it exploit security flaws in the browser and install Firefox :P

Mist (PS It would also set FFX as the main browser)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Swamp7hing on December 04, 2008, 07:04:58 PM
LOL a virus called "GABB" (Get A Better Browser) that secretly downloads and installs firefox, sets it as the default browser, and places a message for the next time you open your computer saying "You're welcome.".

LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 04, 2008, 07:44:56 PM
"Small Update*
I have cleared out all code from Avisaria and have started re-coding it. So far, you can register, log in, and chat. It is absolutely bug free and very optimized. Also very easy to read now. It shouldn't take very long for me to make a movement system and player-see-player. Once that is done, it's beta testing time!


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 04, 2008, 10:53:26 PM
Quote
"Small Update*
I have cleared out all code from Avisaria and have started re-coding it. So far, you can register, log in, and chat. It is absolutely bug free and very optimized. Also very easy to read now. It shouldn't take very long for me to make a movement system and player-see-player. Once that is done, it's beta testing time!


-Gandolf

OSSOM

Mist (Ps could you give me an example of how to do sprites well in VB?)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on December 05, 2008, 09:02:52 AM
Quote
"Small Update*
I have cleared out all code from Avisaria and have started re-coding it. So far, you can register, log in, and chat. It is absolutely bug free and very optimized. Also very easy to read now. It shouldn't take very long for me to make a movement system and player-see-player. Once that is done, it's beta testing time!
so its an absoluly bug free, optimized chat program?..... i could do that in sc in 3 minutes
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Silverwind on December 05, 2008, 11:53:24 AM
Quote
so its an absoluly bug free, optimized chat program?..... i could do that in sc in 3 minutes
You should, I'd like to see it. Post it up when you finish. :)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 05, 2008, 12:56:19 PM
Quote
Mist (Ps could you give me an example of how to do sprites well in VB?)

Yeah, it's really easy. When I get home today, I will make a screen cast tutorial of it. Than post it up.

But...  If you can't wait that long:
Code: [Select]
Dim playerpos As Point 'Create the player's X/Y coordinates variable
    Private Sub Form1_Paint(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As System.Windows.Forms.PaintEventArgs) Handles MyBase.Paint
        Dim bmp As New Bitmap("smile.bmp") 'Load Image into Program
        bmp.MakeTransparent(Color.Black) 'Make black background transparent
        e.Graphics.DrawImage(bmp, playerpos) 'Draw Image to Screen at playerpos coordinates
    End Sub

    Private Sub Timer1_Elapsed(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.Timers.ElapsedEventArgs) Handles Timer1.Elapsed
        Me.Invalidate() 'Update Graphics every 25 milliseconds
    End Sub

    Private Sub Form1_KeyDown(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As System.Windows.Forms.KeyEventArgs) Handles MyBase.KeyDown
        Select Case e.KeyCode 'Change player coor when you press certain arrow key
            Case Keys.Up
                playerpos.Y -= 4
            Case Keys.Down
                playerpos.Y += 4
            Case Keys.Right
                playerpos.X += 4
            Case Keys.Left
                playerpos.X -= 4
        End Select
    End Sub

    Private Sub Form1_Load(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles MyBase.Load
        Setstyle(ControlStyles.DoubleBuffer, True) 'make movement smoother
        Setstyle(ControlStyles.AllPaintingInWmPaint, True) 'Reduce Flicker
    End Sub

Create a new program, and stick that code in the form1. After that, go to the form1 design, and add a timer that runs ever 25 milliseconds. Than go to paint and create a sprite called "Smile.bmp", save it in "Bin" in the project folder.

Tinker and test it out, works wonderfully.

Quote
so its an absoluly bug free, optimized chat program?..... i could do that in sc in 3 minutes
Vb.net is just a bit harder to program with than Sc. Though, that would be pretty cool if you made one.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: WarHampster on December 05, 2008, 02:07:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that several SC chat programs have been developed.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 05, 2008, 03:22:40 PM
Quote
so its an absoluly bug free, optimized chat program?..... i could do that in sc in 3 minutes

I'd really like to see that-- make a chat program in 3 minutes that can handle multiple chat participants live, and I'll believe it.

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Tireas Dragon on December 05, 2008, 06:46:19 PM
Quote
I'm pretty sure that several SC chat programs have been developed.
If several of them have already been made how come I never heard of them?
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 05, 2008, 06:50:17 PM
lol,

I will see how long it takes for me to make a HTML + Javascript one :)

Mist (I would do it in C# but I haven't figured out networking yet)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 05, 2008, 06:51:49 PM
Quote
If several of them have already been made how come I never heard of them?
Harry and Redd made their own chat programs. I made Sc's first MMORPG server/client.

Quote
I will see how long it takes for me to make a HTML + Javascript one  
Cool.

-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 06, 2008, 10:46:49 AM
Hey guys. I have a difficult decision to make that could affect the whole outcome of Avisaria. So....  I will let you guys either (A) Pick the right choice and Avisaria becomes great or (B) Pick the wrong choice and I can't entirely be blamed.

Here are the choices:
(1) Client sends keydown/activity events and server processes it, sends player info, npc info, map, and whatever to display. Basicly the server does all work and client just shows the outcome.
(2) Server sends the client npc info, map, map info, player moves according to the info sent by server. Server doesn't do as much work.

Server runs the whole world in both instances. In first instance, the player is more integrated/melded in the world causing less problems. First one would be much better, but would need a much more powerful computer, and a great internet connection. Number 1 would be a more quality game with a chance of more lag. Number 2 MIGHT be a bit faster, no guarantees.

Also, I am getting far enough that if this decision is made soon, I can have Avisaria ready for beta testing today.

Though, I will need a portforwarded router because Satyricon's router is having issues and I can't portforward my router.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Swamp7hing on December 06, 2008, 11:18:51 AM
Cant we do a modification of number 1, and split the work between both the server and the player?
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 06, 2008, 11:26:16 AM
I could go with #1, and while implementing it, I could do these things:
(1) Create UDP connection to send things faster, get rid of some laggyness if any.
(2) Try to have the client do as much work as it can on it's own without the server, than have it communicate.
(3) Have the whole world map with world data loaded in the client so the server just sends back stats/coordinates and the client pieces it all together.

That would split the work a little more evenly and speed it up a bit, but the server would still do a lot of the work.

What do you guys think? I still need more input.

-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: WarHampster on December 06, 2008, 12:31:35 PM
This depends... how good is your internet connection? Also, are you planning on getting a server computer dedicated to running this game?
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 06, 2008, 12:42:32 PM
Quote
This depends... how good is your internet connection? Also, are you planning on getting a server computer dedicated to running this game?

My connection is fairly good, though we will be running it on Satyricon's super computer in Sweden. Yeah, it will run all the time, 24 hours a day.


-Gandolf
P.S. By testing, and using my new MLoC speed program, I bet could run at most 1 million people online at once on my pc. Yes, it will be incredibly laggy, and my bandwidth will be very low, but it won't crash the server.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 06, 2008, 01:23:41 PM
I would say a mod of #1

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 06, 2008, 01:26:49 PM
Thanks guys, I will try out #1. Hopefully it is the right choice. :P


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on December 07, 2008, 07:23:06 AM
why does everyone care so much about chat programs?! dealer wars on two player had chat capability
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 07, 2008, 09:44:09 AM
Mainly because that's the stage Avisaria is currently in. Though I perfected the login/registration, got rid of a nasty cpu bug, and have made the code more organized and got rid of any extra laggyness.

Avisaria's ready for the next stage. Today I will prepare it and start on the next stage.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 07, 2008, 03:02:22 PM
Quote
why does everyone care so much about chat programs?! dealer wars on two player had chat capability

Because you claim you can make one in 3 minutes. =D

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 07, 2008, 03:49:55 PM
Hey Ghost. Before we move on to the next stage, I need to fully test the server/client in the real world environment for any bugs/things that need to be tested and improved. Have you been able to get windows on your mac?


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Swamp7hing on December 07, 2008, 04:01:21 PM
I can, I'll go on Windows after I shower, and print out my essay.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 07, 2008, 04:05:04 PM
It's a little bit harder than that. We need a portforwarded router.

Satyricon's router isn't working right, mine I can't even access, and Ghost was the only one to successfully forward a port.


-Gandolf
(I can send the you the server/client so you can test just locally on your lan network)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 07, 2008, 04:16:10 PM
Quote
It's a little bit harder than that. We need a portforwarded router.

Satyricon's router isn't working right, mine I can't even access, and Ghost was the only one to successfully forward a port.


-Gandolf
(I can send the you the server/client so you can test just locally on your lan network)

I actually have exams coming up this week, so I'll need to be studying unfortunately. My last exam is Friday, and I'll be home Sunday. That'll be the earliest I'll be able to do it, so if you can find another tester it might be quicker.

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 07, 2008, 04:35:00 PM
Ok, thanks. We will try it on sunday or a bit after sunday. :)

In the meantime, I think I will just go ahead and start on the next stage.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 07, 2008, 04:43:42 PM
I can help.

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 07, 2008, 04:45:02 PM
Can you portforward your router to your pc?


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 07, 2008, 04:57:52 PM
Think so,

What port do you need?

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 07, 2008, 05:05:00 PM
7234.

Thanks Mistron. :)
-Gandolf
(Once you portforward it, go to http://www.ipchicken.com and post your ip address, I will then post the server/client and we will see how many people can get on at once.)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 07, 2008, 11:24:36 PM
Sorry for taking so long...

I will do this tomorrow.

Mist (After school :()
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 08, 2008, 03:14:03 PM
I have bad news:

(1) I'm having more issues with Avisaria, I will do a full wipe/re-make. Again.

(2) I will be gone for 1-2 weeks. I'm shutting down both computers and forcing myself to study for the semester exams. So...  see you guys in 1-2 weeks, unless I sneak onto a school computer.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: WarHampster on December 08, 2008, 03:33:28 PM
Wouldn't it be more productive to fix you're current code than just rewrite it?
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 08, 2008, 03:40:30 PM
Tried, very hard. And I want to make sure I know what every little bit of code does, and why it stuck it there. Sometimes I just wonder... "What is the point of this large chunk of code?". I than erase it...  *BOOM* ...crud.


-Gandolf
P.S Now shutting down my computer. See you in a week or two.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Swamp7hing on December 08, 2008, 03:44:18 PM
Cya gan. Good luck! I wish with just the flick of a switch on my comp I could force myself to turn it off... but It helps me with so many assignments, iTunes helps me focus to study.. my computer isn't a deterrent for school, it helps!

But that's just me. Cya man!
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: alias on December 08, 2008, 07:44:17 PM
I just finished exams (albeit yr11 mock trial exams) its a great feeling. So look forward to it!
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 08, 2008, 09:32:56 PM
Quote
(1) I'm having more issues with Avisaria, I will do a full wipe/re-make. Again.
You should try spending some more time debugging; wiping/re-making tends to include bugs that you've already solved before. And then you spend more time-- solving them again.

Perhaps keep your project under subversion control, so when you release a new revision, and it doesn't work, you can just revert to the previous version. Also, make use of your debugger! Set breakpoints, step through the program, print out variables to see where the problems are occurring.

Personally, I'm remaking my MMORPG engine, but not because it's not working. The underlying structure of my program was flawed-- the client was doing event-handling and updating coordinates, which is very easily hackable. I'm rewriting the server to handle all coordinate updating, and the client will merely display the coordinates it receives from the server on the screen.

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on December 09, 2008, 03:33:07 PM
actually reprogramming from scratch is common, as long as your reprogramming from a different approche, thats how i come up with my best work, something gets so buggy i have to think of a better way to do it then i start over. i do this alot with my multiple enemy battle system, its getting there
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 09, 2008, 04:03:20 PM
Quote
actually reprogramming from scratch is common, as long as your reprogramming from a different approche, thats how i come up with my best work, something gets so buggy i have to think of a better way to do it then i start over. i do this alot with my multiple enemy battle system, its getting there
Actually, I can assure you that reprogramming from scratch is very rare. You will almost never see an experienced programmer or computer scientist work on something for countless hours and then just start rewriting again from scratch.

If you're constantly restarting from scratch, I suggest you work to develop a few skills:

1. Organize/comment your code effectively.
2. Make backups of your code when it works, so you can return to an older working version if the changes you make broke it. A common tool used for this is called subversion. (Note: I can setup subversion on your GMG Hosting account if you want it)
3. Learn debugging techniques. For basic programs, you can usually debug by just using "print" statements to see if the variables are what they should be, and if the code is doing the right thing. For more advanced programs, using a debugger to step through your program, set breakpoints, etc. is very helpful.
4. Spend at least an hour thinking about how you're going to structure your program. This includes thoughts on how to make the battle engine, inventory system, and navigation system.

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: WarHampster on December 09, 2008, 04:22:31 PM
When I get bugs in programs made with SC I go through the code and make it so when ever a new stage in the code is reached a new variable is declared as name of that stage (I always name my code with comments). That way I can figure out what sections of code have been executed correctly (by looking at the variable list that SC displays when you run a game). That really helps me, as SC doesn't have a debugger and it's error messages are not always accurate.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Silverwind on December 09, 2008, 04:48:29 PM
That's actually quite genius Hampster! :D
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 09, 2008, 05:45:01 PM
LOL

I have to reprogram DQ from scratch...

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on December 10, 2008, 08:33:50 AM
Quote
Actually, I can assure you that reprogramming from scratch is very rare. You will almost never see an experienced programmer or computer scientist work on something for countless hours and then just start rewriting again from scratch.


Ghost


listen, i didnt mean just start from scratch for no reason, its only neccisary if you come up with a simpler, easier, more efficent way, and theres nothing from the original you can use. all im saying is dont keep wasting your time bug fixing messy code, try to come up with a better way.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Silverwind on December 10, 2008, 08:40:19 AM
Quote
believe me, a battle system with multiple enemies is much more complicated than designing websites,
LOL! No it's not Eq. ;) Website design is like Quark Express. Nobody likes it, it's hard. The web design Ghost does is like Quark without the tools. It's really hard!
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 10, 2008, 09:08:17 AM
Quote
LOL! No it's not Eq. ;) Website design is like Quark Express. Nobody likes it, it's hard. The web design Ghost does is like Quark without the tools. It's really hard!
It isn't actually that hard to make websites...
I am rewriting the redrasor website soon (If everything goes according to plan)

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Tireas Dragon on December 10, 2008, 09:38:52 AM
Quote
listen, i didnt mean just start from scratch for no reason, its only neccisary if you come up with a simpler, easier, more efficent way, and theres nothing from the original you can use. all im saying is dont keep wasting your time bug fixing messy code, try to come up with a better way.
Thats true, sometimes its easier and better to start from scratch. If I had just copied the Darksville Battle Engine over to Rokeno I never would of gotten each monster with individual Hitpoints and get a shorter faster code.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Al Staffieri on December 10, 2008, 11:47:02 AM
Quote
Actually, I can assure you that reprogramming from scratch is very rare. You will almost never see an experienced programmer or computer scientist work on something for countless hours and then just start rewriting again from scratch.

Umm...
I did that... although I did it very reluctantly... and it's taking WAY longer than I thought it would to get something workable finished.

Sometimes if you have big, old, buggy, clunky, patched up code it can make sense to totally start over and maybe take a few good pieces from the old code and move it over to the new code.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Silverwind on December 10, 2008, 12:38:21 PM
Quote
It isn't actually that hard to make websites...
I am rewriting the redrasor website soon (If everything goes according to plan)

Mist
Hmmm... well, I guess I should be more specific. Like anything the complexity involved varies according to the scale your working on, but even a basic site built with HTML such as Roguesoft's requires more tedium than battle engines in GM do. That's just my opinion, but I know my GM battle engines sir! ;)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 10, 2008, 01:10:11 PM
Quote
Sometimes if you have big, old, buggy, clunky, patched up code it can make sense to totally start over and maybe take a few good pieces from the old code and move it over to the new code.

Like I said-- sometimes it does make sense. I'm rewriting my game engine because the structure was flawed to begin with. If you have to rewrite, salvage as much of your old code as possible-- don't reprogram from scratch. However,  rewriting code should only be done as a last resort. Before rewriting, you should try to clean up and debug as much as you can before making the decision.

This is why I took issue with Eq saying that "actually reprogramming from scratch is common." It isn't common-- seasoned programmers try their hardest not to rewrite their code. Very rarely will you see software projects rewritten from scratch, and the larger the project, the less likely is is that it'll be rewritten. Like Al said-- he did it very reluctantly.

On to another note: basic web design is very simple. Probably easier than coding a battle engine. However, when you're actually designing a website with a full content management system, or a billing system, or any other system really-- it gets much more complicated than a battle engine written in GameMaker. However, I'm not going to try making it sound like it's harder to make a website than Blizzard's battle engines. I don't even want to start thinking what they go through.

Ghost

Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 10, 2008, 06:25:49 PM
LOL

ya....

It is quite easy to make a website (not a CMS mind you...) if you  know how,
I almost want to see Blizzard's code :)

That would be OSSOM!

Mist (PS I am planning to write a CMS for RR.com from scratch... Wish me luck :))
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Tireas Dragon on December 10, 2008, 08:10:21 PM
Quote
I almost want to see Blizzard's code :)
Hey they are hiring maybe you can get a job there and see there code AND work on there games. Well most people don't fit all the criteria and I don't think they are hiring very many programmers.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Mystor on December 10, 2008, 10:09:28 PM
Don't think that I am old enough to get the job :P

Mist
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: GMG Tim on December 11, 2008, 12:04:18 AM
Maybe I should apply. :D Actually, I'm looking to do an internship at Apple next summer, but I'll keep Blizzard in mind (I think they also have an internship program).

Ghost
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Tireas Dragon on December 11, 2008, 12:31:43 AM
If you get hired don't forget about us not so big time folks.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on December 11, 2008, 02:22:42 PM
Quote
Sometimes if you have big, old, buggy, clunky, patched up code it can make sense to totally start over and maybe take a few good pieces from the old code and move it over to the new code.
yea thats kind of what i meant, i dont mean start over and reprogram it the same way it was before, i mean think of a new simpler way to do the same thing
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on December 11, 2008, 02:28:24 PM
Quote

This is why I took issue with Eq saying that "actually reprogramming from scratch is common." It isn't common--
well i was referenceing back in the day of atari and nes games
Quote
On to another note: basic web design is very simple. Probably easier than coding a battle engine. However, when you're actually designing a website with a full content management system, or a billing system, or any other system really-- it gets much more complicated than a battle engine written in GameMaker.

thats debatable, a battle engine with multiple enemies is really hard ive been trying to do it for a while, im trying to simplify it down to something thats easy to work with
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Silverwind on December 11, 2008, 02:58:26 PM
Not sure if this is helpful or not, but here's a simple yet effective method to reduce code when referencing multiple entity's stats:

Code: [Select]
IF ActiveEnemy = 1 THEN enemystats = enemy1stats
IF ActiveEnemy = 2 THEN enemystats = enemy2stats
IF ActiveEnemy = 3 THEN enemystats = enemy3stats

Place a repeat loop around the usual NPC code and then reference the stats in the above way. The repeat loop should repeat the enemy's turn an amount of times equal to the amount of enemies in the battle, and each time it repeats it increases the value of ActiveEnemy by 1. ActiveEnemy is then reset to 1 on the player's turn.

I use that logic for the two player interface of ToF, and I originally started using it for an unfinished 4 player game. It's easy to work with. :)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: WarHampster on December 11, 2008, 03:44:51 PM
I have everything in an array like so:

LET active_baddies$ = 1,2,3,

where there are three baddies, named baddie 1, baddie 2, and baddie 2

To make a baddie active, I simply add an "a" after the baddie number. Example:

LET active_baddies$ = 1,2a,3,

That would mean that baddie 2 is active.

To figure out which baddie is active, you just search the array for the character "a", and then the number before that is the active baddie.
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on December 12, 2008, 07:39:51 AM
Wow, this is sort of getting off topic.

I'm going to re-write Avisaria because I had found a great new way that will make Avisaria way more efficient. I have too much old code, and if I try to convert each bit of it, it will get very messy.

Also, when I start back on Avisaria, progress won't be going as fast as usual. I have two other priorities that are right up there. (1) Dive back into Xcode, going to post on forums about Quartz, going to get some answers. (2) Hopefully get a Intel mac for Christmas, than dive into the iPhone SDK.


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on December 12, 2008, 09:13:59 AM
how about

select case enemy$
case "monster1"
let stats$="10,29,38"
case "monster1"
let stats$="10,29,38"
case "monster1"
let stats$="10,29,38"
end select

let strength=val(nthfield$(stats$, 3, 1)
let accuaracy=val(nthfield$(stats$, 2, 1)
let evade=val(nthfield$(stats$, 1, 1)
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on January 17, 2009, 01:57:36 PM
All Avisaria progress is now going on the Es forum.

Here's the link: http://estudios.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=sp&action=display&num=1232222186&start=0#1232222186


-Gandolf
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: Gan on February 27, 2010, 11:39:46 AM
Hey guys, this has started back up again. This thread is kinda massively long and full of old stuff so I'll make a new one.


-Gan
Title: Re: Avisaria
Post by: EqwanoX on February 27, 2010, 01:28:18 PM
i like it all in one topic so you can see the whole history from the beggniing, when you break it up pieces get lost