Game Maker's Garage Forum
Game Maker's Garage => Trash Talk => Topic started by: Gan on February 27, 2010, 11:45:27 AM
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Switched platforms so we could build it on a superior OS. Plus Xcode is 100* better than Vb.net.
I'll be building this and the iPhone RPG at the same time. Shouldn't be too overwhelming...
I'll get more info back to you guys later, just mockups and tests at this point.
-Gan
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I'll get more info back to you guys later,
so the update is, there is no update. cool! now all you need is a few years to learn xcode and then you can start codeing avisaria! ;D
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now all you need is a few years to learn xcode and then you can start codeing avisaria! ;D
Not quite. ;)
Avisaria Mockup 1 (http://web.mac.com/avisaria/AvisariaMockup1.zip)
-Gan
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"a superior OS"...
lol, cooool.
....except my **** computer is too old, as usual.
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Not quite. ;)
Avisaria Mockup 1 (http://web.mac.com/avisaria/AvisariaMockup1.zip)
n
what is this? all i can do is move around the screen? wow that mustve taken a whole five lines of code
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459 lines of code if you count the template I had to build in order to run the game's mechanics.
Though you are correct, was very easy. Just had to write 49 lines of code in the template to detect key input, control the character's movement, load the character's png file, and draw it to the screen.
Anyways this is only the mockup, trying to set the frame up right before we lower the engine in.
-Gan
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Xcode isn't a programing language. When you say Xcode, should we assume you mean Obj-C?
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Oh, I was comparing the IDEs. Instead of Vb.net, I should have said Visual Studio. Xcode is so much more user friendly than Visual Studio.
Now Obj-C vs. Vb.net is a tough comparison. Though both have the pros and cons but Vb.net is more for people who like to write in a language similar to their own.
-Gan
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459 lines of code if you count the template I had to build in order to run the game's mechanics.
wow, i hate to tell you this but i can do this in 6 lines in sc
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Yeah... If the language choice was as easy as which line count is better, I'd go with Sc any day. Sadly I need something more advanced, a programming language instead of a scripting language. :-/
-Gan
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Sadly I need something more advanced, a programming language instead of a scripting language. :-/n
why do you need something more advanced, what are you planning on doing?
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Making a game. Obj-C gives me speed, power, and everything I want with no limitations. The compiled apps are extremely light weight, open in a single bounce, stay at 60fps easily. There's no lag, if needed I could bump up to OpenGl.
You can make your own objects, classes, there are tons of commands you can choose to do anything you could imagine.
Plus I need the best as I'll be making Avisaria online. When I made the online game in Sc, that was slow.
Sc is good, but only for non-intensive apps and games. It was built in Rb that specializes in business apps.
-Gan
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You can make your own objects, classes, there are tons of commands you can choose to do anything you could imagine.
.....but i asked what are you planning on doing? im aware of the features of but what how are you gonna use those features?
you said that sc is slow but 2.0 is much faster
how bout i challenge you, everything you do in xcode i'll replicate in sc....... in a fraction of the time......... in less code....... and probly better. this will be fun
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Bring. It. On.
Shall I make a new thread for the official challenge?
-Gan
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Oh this is going to be the BEST. THING. EVER. :D
(I'm rooting for Gandolf by the way. SC isn't really a professional game design tool.) ;D
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Challenge thread was made:
http://www.gamemakersgarage.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=looneybin;action=display;num=1267396580;start=0#0
-Gan
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how bout i challenge you, everything you do in xcode i'll replicate in sc....... in a fraction of the time......... in less code....... and probly better. this will be fun
Yeah, but zoom out and look at the bigger picture Eq. Gan has rigorously applied himself to programming over the past twelve months, and despite having received constant advice from every Tom Dick and Harry during that time to "stick with a language" he's just ploughed on with his own thing like a big sponge of knowledge.
And look at him now: he's all the way up there with Obj-C, he regularly lunches with OpenGl, he's on first name basis with X-code and, if the rumours are true, he's having an affair with VisualStudio's wife! But hush hush!
Yessir, there's very few in the world who can do what Gan can at his age. You and I may be born and bred game makers Eq, but Gan is fast on his way to earning a comfortable living with his skills.
That's what Gan's doing, and you can't really replicate it in SC. ;)
EDIT:
WHOOPS! Silver said a naughty word! ;D
Tom Dick and Harry
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And look at him now: he's all the way up there with Obj-C, he regularly lunches with OpenGl, he's on first name basis with X-code and, if the rumours are true, he's having an affair with VisualStudio's wife!
QOTM. This made me laugh. A lot.
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WTF Silver... are you trying to suck up to Gan or make Eq look bad? Or both?
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QOTM. This made me laugh. A lot.
Me too. ;D
WTF Silver... are you trying to suck up to Gan or make Eq look bad? Or both?
Neither. That is to say, ingendera if you're Swedish. Eq's just on his usual "Make games, make GAMES!!!" line, and as I'm pointing out Gan's doing something else.
As anyone who's ever been on the other end of an Eq lecture knows, talk, squawk and bawk about advanced languages and modern IDEs is a MASSIVE waste of time, as Eq can produce a better quality game in SC with significantly less toil. And indeed, most developers with Advanced Language Obsessiveness seldom produce anything more than a nav concept or an incomplete battle engine. But look at Gan. He isn't just talking about advanced languages, he's spent countless hours learning them and now he's starting to produce games in them, fabtabulous games with the possibility of features we GM and SC folk never dreamed of! And not just on the Mac, but on the iPhone! Say it again: The iPhone! Once more: The iPhone! It's really awesome stuff.
So that's what I'm getting at. Gan's learning all the tricks, and you can't replicate them in SC. I personally can't wait to see a few Gansoft games. ;D
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This makes me really, really angry. All hail the glorious Gandolf.
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most developers with Advanced Language Obsessiveness seldom produce anything more than a nav concept or an incomplete battle engine. But look at Gan.
well the iphone game hes working on right now IS a "nav concept/ incomplete battle engine". it just seems comical to me cause none of gans projects ever get off the ground and yet now hes moveing to something more complex, 500 lines to make a character move around, lol. the iphone project looks good and you can make money with that, ide stick with that, but i mean, a 6 page map design topic and no maps, it doesnt look good
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This makes me really, really angry. All hail the glorious Gandolf.
Clarification: I'm not bashing Gan or any of his projects, just Silver's comments.
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well the iphone game hes working on right now IS a "nav concept/ incomplete battle engine".
lol! ;D You're right, but it's a bloomin' good one.
500 lines to make a character move around, lol.
I know, it's absolutely ridiculous, and that's exactly what puts me off every time I try to learn one of these "modern" languages with all of their "modern" features and their "modern" women. I'll bet those 500 lines went into memory management and the properties of the window, and somehow linking the window to the code and whatnot. It's rockbottom boredom for me, I just wanna make games without having to worry about how memory is allocated. And that's what's so impressive: Gan's muscled his way past all that.
the iphone project looks good and you can make money with that,
Oh wait, I didn't mean Gan could earn a full time wage as a commercial game developer just yet, I meant he could teach programming.
This makes me really, really angry.
What? But why? I didn't mean to offend you, honest, I wasn't even talking about you. ???
Clarification: I'm not bashing Gan or any of his projects, just Silver's comments.
I... what?
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I just don't think this "Gandolf is the best and you're not" crap is called for.
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Oh, well my utmost apologies Hammy, I certainly didn't mean to imply anyone else was a bad game maker. I was just pointing out how Gan's an exception to the regular language hoppers; he's done it really well is all and I think he's an excellent role model of hard work and dedication.
Hope that's cleared up. :)
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Uhm... This is a bit awkward.
And look at him now: he's all the way up there with Obj-C, he regularly lunches with OpenGl, he's on first name basis with X-code and, if the rumours are true, he's having an affair with VisualStudio's wife! But hush hush!
That cracked me up. :)
Sorry if I caused some anger :-/, didn't quite intend to by creating this thread.
Anyways, on a brighter note; progress!
I have successfully created a client that connects and communicates well with the server. :)
I shall post up a server and client mockup to test soon enough(Maybe today or a few days from now).
Could anyone host the server so all of us can get online and give it a go? (To do so you'd need an open port in your router so all our clients can connect to the server)
-Gan
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Making significant progress. I'll post something eventually.
-Gan
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Success guys!
The server allows infinite clients to connect. All clients can see each other. Even with many clients online and lots of data flow, the server stands at less than 1% cpu usage!
Here's a preview:
Avisaria In Action! (http://screencast.com/t/NDk4OTgzM)
Yes, Avisaria is one large step forward.
-Gan
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Wow! Well done! :D
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Very cool!
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(http://www.mmorpgmaker.org/forums/download/file.php?mode=view&id=692)
(http://www.mmorpgmaker.org/forums/download/file.php?mode=view&id=693)
(http://www.mmorpgmaker.org/forums/download/file.php?mode=view&id=694)
Working on the map editor of Avisaria, gotta make it easy to make maps and handle npcs.
-Gan
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Can we use that for simple RPG as well?
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Working on the map editor of Avisaria, gotta make it easy to make maps and handle npcs.
-Gan
oooohhhh, THATS cool
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Can we use that for simple RPG as well?
Brilliant idea Gnome! :) With a little modification it'd work wonderfully. Kill two stones with 1 map editor.
oooohhhh, THATS cool
Just wait till you use it, I have some unique features in mind...
-Gan
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can you make it export pict files? then everyone would use it
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you could take a picture by using [Command+Shift+4]
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Hmm. I don't think that'd be necessary...
Sc has a raised sprite limit so you could make it draw tiles individually and have a lot of work done for you. Of course like TD mentioned, you could just take a snap shot and crop it down to the size you want.
Though you could manually piece together maps in a program like Tiled which is better suited for making image files of maps.
-Gan
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I think I missed it, what exactly is Avisaria?
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Massivly(maybe) Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game for Mac.
Large scrolling world with plenty of monsters, online people, towns, adventures. You must stay in character(role play) as much as you can.
Once the game's engine is done we can basicly just use the world editor to make everything.
This is a game Satyricon and I have been making for many years... bumping up through languages and game creation tools.
What inspired us was the online role playing game Oberin.
-Gan
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You must stay in character(role play) as much as you can.
What does that mean?
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Our world is going to have it's own set of History. Now when playing it's frowned upon when acting out of character such as having a debate on who's computer is better in-game. They don't have computers in Avisaria so normally when talked about it a good reply would be:
What's this computer you speak of? In all my life cycles I've never heard of such a word...
Of course the text would be more fashioned to the period of Knights, kingdoms, and such... though I'm pretty rusty on that. Silver is probably great at role play.
-Gan
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Hmm... but how would you enforce that? Other than having admins regularly moderating stuff I don't see how you would censor everything that's out of character.
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Oh no, not censor. It's just frowned upon. They can speak out of character if they want but we just urge them to stay in character for the best gaming experience.
Now, if we're running some big Avisaria event and they publicly get out of character, they may just get electrified.
-Gan
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Fantasy roleplaying is great fun. :) I'd love to see a game that heavily incorporates it. For anyone who isn't sure what roleplaying is, my Dad's old D&D campaign forum is a good example: http://z11.invisionfree.com/Roguesoft/index.php?s=0e2f1f8662998adc37a631a05915a524&showforum=13
My Dad was only able to host game sessions once a month, so he set up the forum for players to role play their characters in between sessions. It was a great idea, as we were able to swap rumours, ask questions and share bard songs. ;D Everything discussed is based on in-game events.
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I had no idea that those forums were still up :P
Also, Gan, how are you planning on hosting the game? Will you run a server out of your house or what?
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Now, if we're running some big Avisaria event and they publicly get out of character, they may just get electrified.
lol
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Satyricon's getting an apartment and will be able to host it 24/7.
-Gan
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This sounds great!
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I had no idea that those forums were still up :P
Yup. I'm gonna revamp the design now that I know CSS once I get Roguesoft.com up and running. I doubt it will be before summer though.
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Hey guys, just a tidbit of progress:
http://screencast.com/t/MjBjYzgzNTE
-Gan
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thats so fricken cool i want it! :o making map is gonna be a breeze with that
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....... and probly better. this will be fun
better as in faster? benchmarks show that C is faster than SilverCreator.
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thats so fricken cool i want it! :o making map is gonna be a breeze with that
Wow, that's probably the most enthusiastic post I've ever seen regarding one of my projects. :) You made my day.
-Gan
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Wow, that's probably the most enthusiastic post I've ever seen regarding one of my projects. :) You made my day.
map makeing is such a BOTHER, that looks like it would make map makeing actually enjoyable, now people have no excuse
better as in faster? benchmarks show that C is faster than SilverCreator.
obviously, but it takes much more time and effort to make something in c, while sc is much quicker- i then have more time to refine gameplay and make a better product
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obviously, but it takes much more time and effort to make something in c, while sc is much quicker- i then have more time to refine gameplay and make a better product
agreed. honestly, i think sc and gm could become the staples of homebrew game development on the mac with the way they're developing. the card-based approach is so much more intuitive than any of the major game creators available on windows, yet they provide so much flexibility with their scripting language.
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agreed. honestly, i think sc and gm could become the staples of homebrew game development on the mac with the way they're developing. the card-based approach is so much more intuitive than any of the major game creators available on windows, yet they provide so much flexibility with their scripting language.
I agree, although GM and SC (especially GM) need to add more "advanced" features before they can truly be successful. A game-making program needs to be simple enough that beginners can jump right in but also be capable of producing really great games.
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what kind of advanced features does it need? you can make great games now
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Well it could use um oh wait SC already has those, well it definitely needs no wait SC and GM both have that, what it really needs is oh wait GM already has that. Dang! I couldn't think of anything.
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the Only thing that keeps SC and GM down are lack of users, 3D support, and the speed and sprite limits (although SC seems to have that front on the run)
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what kind of advanced features does it need? you can make great games now
Better sprite support, simple scripting things like arrays and functions, faster overall processing, maybe a more object-oriented approach overall.
A significant increase in processing speed alone would make platformers and shooters possible, not to mention other games. Right now even grid-based games can get laggy with too much processing.
SC is definitely ahead of GM in this regard.
Anyway, I think we're derailing the thread a little bit. :P
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Gandolf - what is this alleged project that you made in SC that's so slow?
You made some kind of server in SC and it was slow, or something like that.
v2.0a6 introduced some massive scripting speed improvements, anywhere from 50% - 300% faster depending on the code. This is in addition to the improvements introduced with v2.0a3 when we switched to byte code.
I would say the current bottleneck is now the graphics engine, but I've already shown that OpenGL has the possibility to solve this.
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Athoria ran crazy/laggy slow. Eq helped me build it ages ago but I can't find the file anywhere. The Sc Mmo Engine was pretty slow but was usable, just not good enough for an actual MMORPG. The Sc Mmo Engine should be in Sc's code section.
-Gan
P.S. Thinking on it, Athoria's map was gigantic and drawn all at once. So probably not logic code so much then Sc's drawing engine.
This thread really is getting off-track.
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As far as the SC MMO engine goes, it looks like that it was made in 2008, so unless you've touched it since then, the following advancements would probably make it fully usable today:
- Real string arrays
- Bytecode system (v2.0a3)
- Even Faster Scripting (v2.0a6)
- Socket Groups
I just recompiled your Drawing Speed Test in v2.0b1. My time (C2D MacBook Pro) went from 545 ticks to 374 ticks. This is using DRAWRECTs still so the only speed improvement is the new "Even Faster Scripting" from v2.0a6. If you change it to DRAWPIXEL it goes down to 256 ticks. You mentioned at the time being able to do this in VB.NET at 20 FPS, I'd like to see that exe...
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Anyway, I think we're derailing the thread a little bit. :P
dont change the subject, i havent proved you have no idea what your talking about yet
Better sprite support, simple scripting things like arrays and functions, faster overall processing, maybe a more object-oriented approach overall.
A significant increase in processing speed alone would make platformers and shooters possible, not to mention other games. Right now even grid-based games can get laggy with too much processing.
SC is definitely ahead of GM in this regard.
1) sc HAS arrays and functions
2) sc supports 1000 on screen sprites, i made a test example of 1000 sprites(WITH masks) and it ran fairly well.... on my g4
3) shooters and platformers ARE possible, have you played time trial 6 or the mario 2 demo? those run smooth and they were done in 1.5!!!
4) if your game is laggy its from shoddy coding, you have to syncronize sprite movements
Athoria ran crazy/laggy slow. Eq helped me build it ages ago
i remember that, that was done in 1.5, 2.0 is so much faster, and thats true (about the map) it was like 15 megs
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dont change the subject, i havent proved you have no idea what your talking about yet
1) sc HAS arrays and functions
2) sc supports 1000 on screen sprites, i made a test example of 1000 sprites(WITH masks) and it ran fairly well.... on my g4
3) shooters and platformers ARE possible, have you played time trial 6 or the mario 2 demo? those run smooth and they were done in 1.5!!!
4) if your game is laggy its from shoddy coding, you have to syncronize sprite movements
I think you're talking about SC, I'm talking about GM. Shoddy coding is a requirement in GM because of the limitations of the language. ;D
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What game are you trying to make Charlo? If SC can't handle it I think you might be setting your goals a little too high. Software isn't the only limitation in game design you know, your abilities and experience are as well. GM and SC can do great things, and SC in particular can easily accommodate the development of a commercial quality game.
Check out the latest RPG engines me and Eq are tinkering with:
GM version by Silver: http://www.mediafire.com/?ljuijroigdj
SC version by Eq: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ddxnoo0lnn2/rpgfull.zip
EDIT:
Oh, the link for Eq's engine is dead. Fancy uploading it again Eq?
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Nobody finds out about my secret projects. ;)
In this case I'm comparing against windows game maker, which can make essentially any game with relatively little effort, while still leaving enough room to get into heavy-duty coding and advanced game design. I used it for several years and it was much easier to implement your ideas.
It seems like everybody is insinuating that I don't know what I'm talking about. I know that people have done great and complicated things with GM and SC, but those programs are definitely not as expansive as windows GM is. SC and GM require much more ingenuity to get to a playable finished product; it's almost like programming in a language and not using a game-making tool at all, since there is very little built-in to those programs besides the basics (sprites and scripting). Windows GM much better fits people's ideas of a game-making program, which I think is the reason why it's insanely popular while our game making community can only muster up fifty members. :)
I'm not trying to be disagreeable, SC and GM are great programs, but they don't make things as easy as most people would like.
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but thats on windows, and windows sucks
i remember seeing tutorials for the windows GM and it pretty much makes the game for you, you just select the game you want then import graphics, regardless i can program any features it has manually in sc
and sc is free. ;D
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In this case I'm comparing against windows game maker, which can make essentially any game with relatively little effort, while still leaving enough room to get into heavy-duty coding and advanced game design. I used it for several years and it was much easier to implement your ideas.
Well I don't mean to sound doubtful, but I find it hard to believe that anything could be easier to work with than Mac GameMaker. It's entirely self explanatory in every way and boasts the simplest scripting syntax in the world. It's been years since I used Windows Game Maker but it certainly wasn't obvious or simple to me when I tried developing on it.
I've no doubt that Windows Game Maker is a more powerful tool, but that only brings me back to what I said earlier about software not being the only limitation in game design. The people who campaign for bigger and better often produce the least, whereas the born and bred game maker works with whatever he's got and "moves up" with experience.
I'd love to see what you made by the way.
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people who say sc and gm arent advanced enough never produce anything, while people who produce something never make that claim. it takes alot of creativity to design a game from beginning to end, and i think people lack that more than the ability to program. also to be a game designer the PROCESS of makeing the game has to be enjoyable otherwise it doesnt matter what language you use or how advanced it is youll never produce anything
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Well said Eq. But I think this topic has gone way off topic.
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One more off-topic topic among the many, many off-topic topics. ;D
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Attributes work. :)
-Gan
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What kind of attributes? Strength, dex and whatnot?
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Map attributes such as block.
-Gan
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Ah. Nice one! :D
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Can you add features such as auto-convert? like you put a grass tile and a dirt tile next to each other and it automatically adds the midtile
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It's possible though it could get annoying if it's not wanted.
Satyricon is testing the beta. Once we change a few things I think I'll post it up here for you guys to try.
-Gan
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Here's the beta:
http://www.gamemakersgarage.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=gmgroup;action=display;num=1263424426;start=60#60
Fully functional, so start making maps!
-Gan
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once again, will you ever be making a version that works on 10.4.11?
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Probably not. If I want to program for 10.4, I'll need to digress back to Obj-C version 1.0.
-Gan
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Made a bit of progress.
(1) I've built a little isometric engine for Avisaria.
(2) I figured out how to send any type of data over the network instead of just text. This'll allow much easier coding and organization and stuff. Possibilities are endless.
I have lusting for making online greatness. Too bad I leave for 2 weeks starting Sunday. :'(
-Gan
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I don't know how you have time to work on so much stuff at once...
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When I get to my computer I take a look at my overly crowded desktop and think of what I'm in the mood to do. I keep all my projects and sources crazily strewn everywhere in no organized manner. Easy access.
That's usually how I choose my projects.
-Gan