Game Maker's Garage Forum
Game Maker's Garage => Announcements => Topic started by: Gan on December 03, 2011, 02:21:08 PM
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Using HTML5.
http://scirra.com/construct2
That link is a windows only HTML5 game maker. Check out some of the games, it's just as awesome(and more) than flash!
I propose, the best way gain popularity is to make a Mac Game Maker for HTML5.
I've been playing with HTML5 and it's awesome:
My HTML5 Space Game Example (http://web.mac.com/avisaria/Site/EV_Nova/EV_Nova.html)
All variables in Javascript are global variables. Javascript is really fast compared to Sc and Gm. I suppose it would be possible and possibly easy to build a Javascript+HTML5 script interpreter.
What I need from you guys:
Start posting ideas. What do you want the HTML5 game maker to look and feel like?
Open photoshop and start drawing what you'd like the interface to be.
Let your mind loose. Think of how HTML5 games are played in the browser, how with a simple upload people can be playing your games online and how fast and sleek they can be.
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awesome, but are you advocating a new IDE, or maing a GM plugin that makes it compile for HTML5/javascript?
SOunds like a great idea, i'm just not clear
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A new IDE. With a similar look and coding to GM and Sc.
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So, Gan, I recently met friend of mine who is now in college and I knew him because he wanted to start a kind of game-dev club at school.. He's now got his own game company going and he had great advice, he really did.
Basically when you want to put a large project together usually it's best if one person puts together a more concrete idea on their own. Have an idea for a game? Write it down on paper! Experiment with different ideas, maybe even take it to the point where you can play it out on paper, and do all you can before going and recruiting a group of people. Otherwise there's not enough direction and people can't put their work together.
In this case I think we have enough to put up some ideas but we can't do the whole thing this way.
Besides, Gan - you're good at interfaces, remember making Titanium Forge? You did fine on your own, I was impressed. That was a cool project and i think if I'd been in this C class then I would have known enough to do something interesting with it, it had some good features. The interface worked because it was simple enough and I could find everything okay. I think what we need to do first is decide more exactly what functions your latest program is going to have and how the game making process will work, and THEN go into more detail on a fast shiny interface.
*proof reads short essay/wall of text a few times then hits submit*
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So anyways, sorry for double post, but I had some ideas already, you got me thinking.
Do you want to make it card-based or not? It could be really useful for games with separate stages.
Also, it better have a good way to deal with sprites.
And the syntax! It could be like GM or SC but now that I've looked at different languages having to type LET each time I change a variable drives me insane. XD But I think the capital letters for built-in functions can stay, it's easier to read for less experienced programmers.
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I was writing a long post, in which I was going to say basically what Connors just said. I saw his post when I clicked "Preview" to see what I had written. So I'm going to write something different now. ;D
Gan, if you make it, I know it will be cool. But I'm not clear on what you're describing. Provide more information, and I'll give you my ideas.
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Oh hey! I didn't think we had any new members, welcome to GMG! ;D
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The only thing I've ever been able to make a game with is GM. I've tried "No Programming" game makers, and they either make the same stupid game every time, or drive you crazy because nothing feels right. I wish GM could make something that everyone could play, not just the few people I know with macs. I think if the language was like GM, everyone would be able to use it to make cool games.
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The only thing I've ever been able to make a game with is GM. I've tried "No Programming" game makers, and they either make the same stupid game every time, or drive you crazy because nothing feels right. I wish GM could make something that everyone could play, not just the few people I know with macs. I think if the language was like GM, everyone would be able to use it to make cool games.
That's the idea! ;D
So, Gan, I recently met friend of mine who is now in college and I knew him because he wanted to start a kind of game-dev club at school.. He's now got his own game company going and he had great advice, he really did.
Basically when you want to put a large project together usually it's best if one person puts together a more concrete idea on their own. Have an idea for a game? Write it down on paper! Experiment with different ideas, maybe even take it to the point where you can play it out on paper, and do all you can before going and recruiting a group of people. Otherwise there's not enough direction and people can't put their work together.
In this case I think we have enough to put up some ideas but we can't do the whole thing this way.
Besides, Gan - you're good at interfaces, remember making Titanium Forge? You did fine on your own, I was impressed. That was a cool project and i think if I'd been in this C class then I would have known enough to do something interesting with it, it had some good features. The interface worked because it was simple enough and I could find everything okay. I think what we need to do first is decide more exactly what functions your latest program is going to have and how the game making process will work, and THEN go into more detail on a fast shiny interface.
*proof reads short essay/wall of text a few times then hits submit*
I completely agree. Fantastic plan. I'm gonna write down all my ideas, make some flow charts, photoshop some screens and show you guys to get the idea across so we're all on the same page. Ah and yeah, gotta write everything in detail.
So anyways, sorry for double post, but I had some ideas already, you got me thinking.
Do you want to make it card-based or not? It could be really useful for games with separate stages.
Also, it better have a good way to deal with sprites.
And the syntax! It could be like GM or SC but now that I've looked at different languages having to type LET each time I change a variable drives me insane. XD But I think the capital letters for built-in functions can stay, it's easier to read for less experienced programmers.
I don't know about card based. Card based is a bit cookie cutter and it's probably not necessary. Though if you guys really want it... I suppose it could be done. Though I'm sure allowing people to learn how to program through a simple language in the format of more complex languages would be more beneficial.
I'll let you guys decide on it.
I was writing a long post, in which I was going to say basically what Connors just said. I saw his post when I clicked "Preview" to see what I had written. So I'm going to write something different now. ;D
Gan, if you make it, I know it will be cool. But I'm not clear on what you're describing. Provide more information, and I'll give you my ideas.
Will do, continue reading to the bottom of this post and hopefully you'll have a crystal clear picture.
The only thing I've ever been able to make a game with is GM. I've tried "No Programming" game makers, and they either make the same stupid game every time, or drive you crazy because nothing feels right. I wish GM could make something that everyone could play, not just the few people I know with macs. I think if the language was like GM, everyone would be able to use it to make cool games.
Couldn't agree more!
Here we go:
My idea is for a game maker called the HTML5 GameMaker(or some sort of spiffy name). It's a Mac application that allows you to make HTML5 games. Games that run in the browser, very similar looking to flash games except they don't need plugins and don't take as much CPU.
How it works:
Open HTML5 Game Maker. A new game is automatically created for you(though from the menu up top you can choose to load a game). A window is before you. There are tab bars at the top. The tabs are: "Code" - Where you type your code, "Media" - Where you import pictures and music for your game, "Settings" - Where you set the settings for you game, like window size of the game, "Run" - Click this tab and it plays your game in the window and, "Export" - When clicked it opens a dialog asking you where to export the game, it compiles your game and exports the HTML files so you can upload them for people to play. So you can test it.
Now this window is resizable allowing for more flexibility if someone wants to code in a bigger window.
The "Code" tab:
When clicked shows a text field on the right and a bar on the left, above the bar is a combo box. You type in code on the right, and your methods are in the bar on the left and classes are in the combo box that you can select. You click the method or class and your code appears in the text field on the right that you can edit. There may be further options below the text field. Like buttons and such to make new methods and classes.
The "Media" tab:
Contains a list of all the media of the game, a preview of each and options to delete certain media and to add some media.
The "Settings" tab:
Just has some settings, like game width and height and other stuff when I think of them.
The "Run" tab:
When the run tab is clicked, it compiles your game into HTML5 and displays your game for you to play within the window.
The "Export" tab:
When clicked it displays a save dialog where you choose where to save your HTML5 game. It compiles and exports it so you can upload it and share with friends.
Here's a photoshop mockup:
(http://cl.ly/2i023o0c3r32002j153C/HTML5%20GameMaker.png)
How the compiler works:
Takes in this language similar to SC and GM. It interprets it and turns it into Javascript. No runtime compiler needed. It puts the Javascript in appropriate methods and bam. This means that there's no need for a super complex and possibly slow custom made compiler.
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Well so far it looks awesome! I just wonder if there's any way to make a program that runs on Windows as well?
But aside from that I like this idea a lot.
I remember your titanium forge thing had the option to draw a collision boundary, how did that work? It could be a cool feature.
ALSO something to look into: It ought to have a command to draw an image on the canvas without having to create a new sprite/object. You could draw the background and it wouldn't have to change at all. It also helps for tile maps because you do not need to deal with 300 sprites.
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This is a great idea. HTML5 has so many things in it it will certainly support everything in GM.
This is feasible, though someone would have to invest a considerable amount of time writing an automated converter. A few years ago I developed an efficient and functional (but not entirely automated) process for converting GM games to HTML+JavaScript+GIF.
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Well so far it looks awesome! I just wonder if there's any way to make a program that runs on Windows as well?
But aside from that I like this idea a lot.
I remember your titanium forge thing had the option to draw a collision boundary, how did that work? It could be a cool feature.
ALSO something to look into: It ought to have a command to draw an image on the canvas without having to create a new sprite/object. You could draw the background and it wouldn't have to change at all. It also helps for tile maps because you do not need to deal with 300 sprites.
I was thinking about that. My best solution would be to make the HTML5 GameMaker in HTML5. So the game maker would be online and it'd use PHP to do the compiling and such.
Though that could be quite a bit more difficult and take more time.
For now I think the best route is a Mac only version cause this is the GameMaker's Garage: Mac Homebrew Game Community. Plus with a Mac version, I can put it on the Mac App Store and get $$$. ;) Or just make it free. I dunno yet. Or perhaps free from the Gmg but costs on the App Store. Haha I'm just throwing ideas.
Yeah, it's a good idea to have images that can be drawn without sprites.
As for the collision boundary, that was an excellent tool in Titanium Forge. You didn't have to rely on rectangles and only needed to draw an outline on your image and you could detect precise collisions. Perhaps this is a feature that could be useful in the HTML5 GameMaker.
This is a great idea. HTML5 has so many things in it it will certainly support everything in GM.
This is feasible, though someone would have to invest a considerable amount of time writing an automated converter. A few years ago I developed an efficient and functional (but not entirely automated) process for converting GM games to HTML+JavaScript+GIF.
Nice. Yeah it'll take some time... but I'm up for a challenge!
It's time to start writing documentation of what the HTML5 GameMaker will support. I'll be double posting my ideas for functionality. What sorta features do you guys really want it to support?
(I'll be taking into account all your functionality/feature ideas when I start the prototype)
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Cool idea. I've done quite a bit with Javascript and the canvas element. It definitely has the same feel to it that SC does, although with more language features.
I think you should do something level-based instead of card-based, if you go that route. Cards are basically just levels with buttons.
Also, not all variables in Javascript are global. Variables declared inside functions are in scope only for that function. This includes instance variables for objects as well. You can, of course, make everything a global variable by declaring it outside of any functions, but it's not good practice.
There are a lot of HTML5 game makers in the works, but I don't know of any for the Mac community. I know that windows Game Maker, the most popular windows game-creation tool, is working on HTML5 support. Since Game Maker is already a well-established program with many features, they just have to write the Javascript compiler. If this project does come to fruition, I recommend not trying to match them feature-for-feature. [smiley=grin2.gif]
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Well just don't get too carried away. XD
Besides, if it supports enough math functions and whatnot we can add all kinds of features ourselves in the form of custom methods (AKA functions AKA procedures) and engines. I could even put together some kind of tile map engine fairly quickly... But there are a few things:
Tile maps and many sprites would be quicker if you could use pieces of a single image! And advanced users may even want a scrolling map and if it's smooth you have to draw sprites with the edge clipped. All pretty simple, yes?
And one more little point: Must they be called Methods? There's built-in "functions" such as createsprite that are essentially the same as methods, just call them all the same thing. I like functions. 8-)
EDIT: Well said Charlo. I think we can make it original though. As for levels:
You don't need a GM style system for that necessarily, but it could help. HOWEVER, rather than give separate levels/cards/what have yous their own code, set it up so you can load each one when you want but it's controlled by the global code. It's actually neater this way...
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Cool idea. I've done quite a bit with Javascript and the canvas element. It definitely has the same feel to it that SC does, although with more language features.
I think you should do something level-based instead of card-based, if you go that route. Cards are basically just levels with buttons.
Also, not all variables in Javascript are global. Variables declared inside functions are in scope only for that function. This includes instance variables for objects as well. You can, of course, make everything a global variable by declaring it outside of any functions, but it's not good practice.
There are a lot of HTML5 game makers in the works, but I don't know of any for the Mac community. I know that windows Game Maker, the most popular windows game-creation tool, is working on HTML5 support. Since Game Maker is already a well-established program with many features, they just have to write the Javascript compiler. If this project does come to fruition, I recommend not trying to match them feature-for-feature. [smiley=grin2.gif]
Level based... interesting idea. I suppose it'd be similar to SC where you have general non-level methods then levels have their own methods. Anyone else for level based? It certainly would make it easier to make for example a Sonic The Hedgehog game. And those with no need for multiple levels would only need to make their entire game in a single level.
Ah thanks for telling me. Don't know what I as thinking. I suppose I could make. Global and local variables, would you guys prefer that or would you rather have all variables global? To have separate global and local variables would mean global variables need to be separately defined.
I'll try to keep this project in check. I'd hate to become over ambitious. The feature set will start small and smoothly increase.
Well just don't get too carried away. XD
Besides, if it supports enough math functions and whatnot we can add all kinds of features ourselves in the form of custom methods (AKA functions AKA procedures) and engines. I could even put together some kind of tile map engine fairly quickly... But there are a few things:
Tile maps and many sprites would be quicker if you could use pieces of a single image! And advanced users may even want a scrolling map and if it's smooth you have to draw sprites with the edge clipped. All pretty simple, yes?
And one more little point: Must they be called Methods? There's built-in "functions" such as createsprite that are essentially the same as methods, just call them all the same thing. I like functions. 8-)
EDIT: Well said Charlo. I think we can make it original though. As for levels:
You don't need a GM style system for that necessarily, but it could help. HOWEVER, rather than give separate levels/cards/what have yous their own code, set it up so you can load each one when you want but it's controlled by the global code. It's actually neater this way...
Haha yeah. It'll have all the basic math functions and you'll be able to make custom methods and classes which will greatly allow more functionality than Sc.(Custom classes = Custom objects = Awesomeness)
I think JavaScript has built in sprite sheet functions. It should be easy to add functionality for it.
Interesting twist for levels. This will have to be thought on.
Would levels inhibit the programmer?
With custom classes, levels could be made by the user.
Also I'm thinking there should be a way to input raw JavaScript code without it being altered by the interpreter.
I feel this could allow for greater features for advanced users that want to do stuff the GameMaker doesn't support.
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You know I'm not sure that levels thing makes sense now I think about it... The way I said it was odd.
I don't know if we need a card system at all. I just wonder how you could organize data for levels/maps in any game, so that the game can load it in. It would be cool to allow map data to be saved in separate places.
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Truthfully you could have all the game data coded in.
GetLevel(levelNum) - Returns a level class for the levelNum completely filled with data of the level.
That's something the user can make by themselves with the customizable classes.
Or perhaps if the level data was saved as a text file, it could be loaded and parsed by a method the user made.
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There are already many HTML5 based game makers. Some even use a BASIC syntax. I think this idea is silly.
http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz/Monkey/about.php -- BASIC that compiles to JS/HTML5
http://www.appgamekit.com/platforms-and-features.php -- BASIC that will compile to HTML5
http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/html5
http://www.scirra.com/
Point is you need to make this idea a little more original if you want to stand out.
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You have a valid point.
What can this concept project do that Monkey, Yoyo, ect can't?
They got drag and drop, they got built in image editing, they got full feature languages, I got bad grammar.
We need this to stand out. How do we do that?
Any suggestions?
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At the moment all I can think of is making the HTML5 GameMaker online using JS for the interface and PHP to interpret the code.
We could integrate it into the GMG which would mean we'd need a full site make over to make the forums match with the site with the HTML5 GameMaker.
That would not only boost the GMG's popularity but also give us something original.
Then add some ads and the GMG has sustainable cash flow for contests.
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Aha!
I figured out how to get over a stumbling block. The GMG will store game files but not images and music associated with a game. So to use an image in their game they'll need to find a host to put the image on then they paste the link into the HTML5 GameMaker and voila. Solves that fundamental problem.
Then using the forum I can have saved games be accessible through forum account. In order to use the HTML5 GameMaker they'll need to be logged on the GMG.
Brilliant...
Still thinking this through, feel free to chip in.
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I could just keep working on that compiler I was writing too, add some GLFW support and put in some basic 2D commands. I could basically copy the SC/GM syntax but add OOP support, procedural support and make it a hullova lot faster since it gets converted to C++ then compiled by the GNU compiler.
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I should add I think having your BASIC -> HTML5 compiler plug into the back-end on the site is a great idea.
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Excellent suggestion X. When we get the HTML5 GameMaker running, being able to compile to executable binaries is a very valuable feature.
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Yeh, have them based on a similar (or same) syntax would make things pretty awesome.
We could create a single IDE then multiple compile targets. This is starting to sound like a free version of Monkey.
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Just some feedbak on copying SC syntax:
Things like LET and THEN seem like they are mostly to make the compiler's job easier. They aren't necessary!
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Sounds great Gan. I really like the mockup. I look forward to seeing this realized.
Regarding the card-based thing... I don't think that HTML5 GameMaker should be card-based either, but I think that there should be some way to visually separate different sections of code into levels or scenes. I also think that it should have some sort of form editor to help the user generate interface code, like Xcode, NetBeans, etc.. Since cards and levels and forms are fairly similar concepts, I wonder if you could make one broad feature to serve all of those purposes. To be clear, this would be to help generate code, not to replace coding.
Oh hey! I didn't think we had any new members, welcome to GMG! ;D
Thank you Connors. :)
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Interesting idea. I could definitely see that being useful. I think it's something that could be added later. A sort of level designer tab that allows you to place sprites in certain parts of the screen, then generates the code for the placement.
Very handy indeed, means the user wouldn't need to guess and check when placing pixel locations.
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That would be amazing.
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