Another RPG Programming Project Thread

[Connors]

Gan and I were talking about past attempts at a group RPG again recently, and he had a good point. There's not much to say about it yet, except that he told me if I can get a complete detailed script going he can help actually program the game. I think a little explanation is in order...

Mostly this came up because Gan says he would have helped to complete the mighty iRPG Group Project if we'd had a story. Well, honestly we had a pretty epic story. A complete and detailed plotline, backstory and locations fairly well thought out and there's a lot of good work there. But  basically, we never got down to the details of the project and wrote the actual script. Gan needed this to continue and if there had been more clear communication about what was needed we may have gotten more done.

I don't see why Gan and I, and perhaps Zoo, couldn't do something like this now, but I have a dilemma. If we were to use the content from the iRPG threads I feel it would be wrong to not let the original creators know, especially if we plan on selling this on the App Store. I do seem to recall a suggestion that we use any profits from such a thing to help fund this website or a contest.

The alternative is of course to make an entirely new project with unique sprites and storyline so that there isn't some big ethical issue, and then we'd split the profits between us. Sounds like Zoo would be on board with that.

EDIT: One more little side note. The TIGsource forum seems like a good place to go if we're looking for a larger amount of feedback, if this becomes a serious project we should consider posting logs on both this forum and theirs.

[Gan]

Silver has given me full access to all Roguesoft resources, free to use.

[Connors]

Heheh, yeah I had forgotten about that. o.O

I did write that original post kinda late at night. I think we could try and continue using the stuff from the iRPG, it would be really fun and we can talk about whether we're selling it for money later.

[Zoo]

Well, in that case, Gan, we don't need to write much original music, as there's a bunch of unused (I think) but nonetheless brilliant Roguesoft music in the Elathondreoth (or however that's spelled) soundtrack.

I think we should take a 50/50 approach to the game, with 50% of it taking place in an underground society that never progressed past ancient times, and then it take a serious turn when you escape the caves and discover a futuristic society where war has broken out with aliens or something to that effect. That way, we get a nice, easy, classic RPG, mixed with a futuristic RPG. I think it's a great idea.

Another idea (although a much harder one) would be to move out of the 1990s of gaming. 2D turn based RPGs are great, but they aren't big moneymakers these days. Their main purpose these days are to be a retro throwback. I'm not saying we have to make another Skyrim, but a bit of an enhancement graphically or gameplay wise would be welcome, in my opinion. I just don't think a grid based game would work very well with an epic plot. I say we try to replicate the feeling of Ocarina of Time by having real time combat based on blocking and attacking with puzzles thrown in to each level (and getting to each level). Then if we make one inventive new item that is used to solve puzzles in each level, and also a clever boss that acts as a sort of a final challenge with that item (IE using the slingshot to kill Goma, or the hookshot against that blob thing that had a really weird name).

I know anyone who's played OoT will agree that it's an inspiration that doesn't have many games inspired by it come out today. If you haven't played it (Gan) I'd either find a copy asap, or just *shudder* emulate it. If you guys feel up to the challenge, I could help you write it, as well as give you ideas, design puzzles/levels/items.

That being said, it would be a rather large undertaking, and it wouldn't be easy. But it would be different.

[Gan]

It'd be best if we stuck with the resources we have.

Granted I do find the classic/futuristic idea appealing. It tingles my desire to make a space game.

A 3D game would have to be done much later, none of us are (good) 3D modelers.


And to make the game, it'd require all of use to at least do basic coding.

[Zoo]

I can modify code, IE, making different weapons using some form of base weapon code. If 2D, I say we at least have real time combat or some variant on the turn based engine such as spells or elemental weapons or something. Maybe a party system like final fantasy?

As for 2D vs. 3D, I recall you being pretty good at modeling things, Gan. And like I said, I'm not suggesting we make something high-polygon. I think that we could make it in the style of PS1/N64 RPGs. Because people like nostalgia. There's 16 bit and 8 bit games flooding the internet these days, but you don't see many people trying to emulate the experience of playing a Nintendo 64 game. If we were to take on this upgrade from SNES graphics to N64 graphics, we could still primarily use 2D sprites for items as was common back then.

OK, so it's pretty obvious here that I want to make a game that looks and feels like Ocarina of Time, and there's a good reason behind that. Nostalgia sells games. The main demographic for gamers is people who grew up with the N64 (imo).

And Ocarina of Time is one of the (if not the) most fondly remembered games of the era. It just had this great atmosphere of adventure that I don't think can be created with 2D games. As a kid I remember just the drive to discover secrets in the gigantic 3D world. It was the first game I can remember that truly felt like... adventure. The exploration, the items, the puzzles, the battles... it all just felt like what the perfect adventure game should be. It's right up there with Cave Story and Super Mario Brothers 3 on my mental list of the greatest games ever. I doubt any game will ever come near to matching how great it was. But nonetheless, I want to try.

[Zoo]

Also, if we could have a TBMSBC cameo in there (assuming we add the sci-fi bit), that'd be awesome.

Maybe as little as a piece of dialog or going as far as to include a titanium battle mech armor item, I think it'd be an interesting addition. Or just go all out and include all the characters with several side quests and maybe give them a role in the main story. I should PROBABLY check how far the blog's gotten, actually... I have to see what I can tell you guys...

OK, so you haven't met like 2/3 of the main characters yet... Stay tuned, then, I guess. Maybe I'll just make my own TBMSBC game... except I have absolutely no idea where to start because I don't have any of my old software... because my new computer is windows.

[Zoo]

I think we should have a solid main quest line, but a lot of side quests and character customization (stat wise) for a lot of replayability. We should obviously start it with a stat chooser thing, where you start with like 10 points used to set your base stats, and then every time you level up you get better health, but also like 3 points. Standard RPG stuff that wasn't in QoM.

[Gan]

They did a survey, people actually feel closer to characters that they can personally customize with stats.

[Zoo]

Before we can progress, there's a few decisions that have to be made.

Mainly, what will the game look and feel like? What platform will it be for? I'm assuming it would be for PC/Mac (you'll have to make it cross platform to get any kind of an audience.)

While I'm of the opinion that it should feel like Ocarina of Time, we'd have to find a way to take the feel of the combat from the intuitive N64 controller to the keyboard and mouse. I think one way to do this would be by having mouse controlled 3rd person camera that could rotate in a 360, but you could lock on to targets in a similar way to Ocarina of Time's lock. With bows and laser guns, having a mouse and keyboard is actually an advantage, with more precise aiming. I also think this format would be great for adding mounted combat (like on some form of ATV or underground horse?) I don't think the cave bit should feel closed off, as if you were in a cave, but rather it should feel like a gaping cavern with its own life. Stealth would obviously be key during this segment, forcing you to sneak up on larger enemies rather than trying to overpower them. That type of gameplay is impossible to get with a turn based game. Graphically, we could strive for something like a mix between Ocarina of Time and Halo: Combat Evolved. That being said, better graphics would be possible, but we'd need practice using whatever 3D engine we choose (Unity, maybe? Unreal engine is nice too, but I don't think it's free.) I think that you have to make the games that you want to play, and I've been wanting a game like this for some time. I'd like to hear your opinions, anyway.

On the 2D side of the debate, I think we could have a top down perspective, but we'd need entirely new art assets for the RTC. While I loved QoM, I think it was lacking gameplay wise. Mainly due to the fact that there wasn't much actual thought or strategy involved in the combat. I don't think it should be grid based. I think we need to convey the story in other ways besides just text dialog. Voice acting would be nice, but it'd have to be done well (which means I can't do it.)

As for making a 3D game being a huge challenge for us: yes, it will be. I have a friend who might be able to help with the coding a bit, and I can help with the art (mainly by critiquing it, and with menu designs and stuff that can then be polished up by somebody better at art.)
I don't think it'd TOO much of a challenge, though. I think with serious dedication we'll be able to make the game. And since this isn't my project, I guess I'll hand this topic over to Connors and Gan for the moment who will probably reject my (albeit very ambitious) ideas for a simpler 2D game.

[Zoo]

They did a survey, people actually feel closer to characters that they can personally customize with stats.

I can certainly agree with that. I think it also allows for gameplay more varied and suited towards each player's personal preference. For example, I'll usually play an RPG as an archer or a rogue, but I know people who generally like to lean towards the heavy melee side of things. Kind of like TF2's class system. Some people are spy people, some people are more inclined to be the heavy.

[Connors]

Alright Zoo I'm gonna try and lay this out for ya. There's no way Gan will be making anything remotely resembling Ocarina of Time with his current experience, I can't hardly help him much with code and I don't think your friend will be able to make the difference. Gan and I agreed that we should try for a 2D game for now, and we're not shunning your big plans, we just want to put that on the shelf for now.

When I took an interest in this site I wanted to do this as a hobby, for fun, and I feel like this project could be a great way to do that. If we manage to make some decent money off it too, that's awesome. But we can only do so much at the moment.

That said, I'm gonna propose my idea of a game based generally off the old group threads. Feel free to throw in your own input, we don't need to use this plot but I really feel like there's a lot to work with here. And don't worry, we're gonna make a fresh combat system, and I have plenty of ways we can implement some Zelda style puzzles and make things more interesting than QOM was gameplay wise. I like the idea of a percentile system. I also think we could implement various strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps there's even puzzles where some monsters can't be beaten just because you're high level and instead require a particular strategy or you have to find a special item. Maybe instead of the percentiles and turn-based stuff we just make it more like classic Zelda gameplay, but 2D. Phantom Hourglass anyone?

This is the general storyline as best I can remember:

The game would be a 2D RPG with a somewhat open world (although not a huge one), side quests and many puzzle elements and special items to find. It's got one setting, a fantasy world. Here's the story in a nutshell from what I can remember:

We open with the main character having signed up to be a part of the City Guard. The player can choose to train as a typical Guard (warrior/swordsman), an Archer or a Mage. Small time skip to a training session which serves as a basic tutorial. You are then told by somebody that they need some recruits to go out to this new settlement up north at the base of the mountains, a town that's just getting started where there's been some trouble brewing. You ride to this town with 2 or 3 other fairly new recruits. In town you might meet a few more characters and learn that the town is being harassed by monsters.

Early quests involve helping the locals fend off monsters and at some point you have to investigate areas near town. These areas are open world but with Zelda style railroading (you must have item A to access this Dungeon). This eventually leads you to the first dungeon in a cave nearby in the woods and at the end of the dungeon is a boss monster and a new item.

After the woods dungeon the game continues like this with various side quests as you go through dungeons in the nearby swamp, a peculiar desert wasteland all the while gathering strength and items and finally the final boss is up in the snowy heights of the mountain.

During all this the town is the central area and it grows as the game progresses. Merchants pass through selling supplies for the hero to look at. Eventually people move into town and buildings appear, construction is done on the central building etc. Later on merchants set up shop permanently so you can get items that way.

DUNGEONS AND BOSSES:
Forest dungeon (northwest, near town): not to sure what's there yet, but it's a boss in a dungeon.
Swamp (southwest area): Boss is some kind of shapeshifting Ogre that tricks you repeatedly before you finally catch him.
Desert: (East area) You discover an Evil Mage of some kind has turned this area into badlands, so that the forest abruptly becomes desert-like as if you were in Minecraft. Very out of place. You find the mage underground in this dungeon.
Mountains: (north) Way up there above the snowline in the cold mountains in a cave, the last dungeon, is the Final Boss. I don't recall having fleshed out many details on the final boss. My idea for it's motive is basically that this boss monster feels threatened by humans trying to expand their territory; it's the puppet master of the stuff you've been fighting. It's turning wild monsters hostile so that you have to fight them and they all wind up suffering because of it. It wants to destroy the village and hopes to one day perhaps go even farther and wage war with humanoids. I can credit the idea to a friend of mine who suggested it be a crazy Druid hippie environmentalist guy but it could also be an angry dragon because dragons are cool. The crazy druid could be much funnier though.

I think we could have fun with story characters dialogue etc. and even have a humorous aspect since I enjoy that stuff and Zoo seems to excel at it.

[Zoo]

Sounds good, I'll just shelve my idea for now.

So, 2D Zelda style, eh? So, there are some inventive ways you could do this... you could:

Have it be grid based, until you reach an encounter with an enemy in a dungeon, which takes you to a battle screen in real time. Maybe you can choose to approach the enemy before they see you, thereby adding a stealth aspect as well. Sort of like EarthBound. Upon triggering a battle with an enemy if it's a sneak attack they won't be able to detect you for a bit/until they're hit in the battle screen. Enemies would all have a range of view (like the big sword guys in phantom hourglass), but it wouldn't be visible to you unless you had a lens of truth-like item. You'd start the game without a sword (the first sword would be hidden in a chest halfway through the first dungeon) so you'd have to sneak by enemies. I like the idea of a stealth aspect in an RPG. Obviously this would take a little bit of AI work, but it'd be worth it. Back on topic, though. The battle screen would have a background resembling the area you were in when you triggered it. It'd be fairly large, but you can't leave a battle screen until either of the two forces inside it were dead (be it you or the enemy(s). Battle screens would be triggered by crossing an enemy's field of vision, or by clicking on an enemy. A battle screen would include all the enemies in a given radius. This singling out of enemies for real time combat would allow for more strategic fights. You could attack, block, use magic, use ranged weapons, etc. It would also spawn you in the battle screen relative to where you were when the battle was triggered, allowing for ranged attacks as well. I like the idea of separating battles from travelling. Maybe there could be puzzle screens as well, where you have to solve puzzles, but until we have a set list of the different actions the player can perform and the different items that will be in the game, it's hard to say what these puzzles will be like. Probably some cube and button based testing. And switches... and probably lighting a bunch of torches in a room (because Zelda logic). Bosses would have combat screens like regular enemies, but they'd be triggered immediately upon entering the boss room, and they'd be slightly large. Bosses absolutely CAN NOT just be strong enemies. They all have to be well designed, and require you to use your wits to defeat them.


Wow.. I probably should have broken that up into paragraphs...

Possible mechanic/item/boss listing begins now!

[Connors]

"Cube/Button Testing". I like that. x3

Well, if you read my last post and didn't go TL;DR, we had some ideas for bosses. I particularly like the tricky, clever shape-shifter, the Ogre that lives in the swamp. There could be multiple puzzles relating to his trickery.

Some enemies might have a very specific weakness, rather than require you to be a certain level, requiring you to use an unusual item.

As for your ideas about stealth:
The idea is that the hero is training to be on the City Guard but is offered the option of being paid to instead go to help this new settlement for a while. So the hero already has minimal training and a weapon. I do really like this idea of giving enemies a line-of-sight, and surprise attacks for battles, though. Could be used for some puzzles (again Phantom Hourglass).

[Connors]

Here's a fantastic example of puzzleness: I once tried some old text adventures we had on an old computer. My favorite was Beyond Zork: The Coconut of Quendor.

There's a path along a cliff face, a riddle written upon it the cliff, if you guess "lightning" (or was it thunder) the lightning strikes a hole into the rock allowing you to reach a lighthouse. Guarding the lighthouse are a few monsters. There is a giant slug which you can fight if you want but it's easiest to chase it away with some brine (salt) from the ocean nearby. At the top of the tower a chest is guarded by a beast with a thousand eyes.

To defeat this creature, you must obtain a giant onion, roll it all the way to the top of the lighthouse (you gotta type roll/push onion [direction] a lot), and slice it open releasing strong fumes, which sting your eyes and cause the creature to screetch in pain and flee.

To obtain said onion you must get if from the cook in the tavern, The Rusty Lantern. He tells you to get him a valuable bottle somewhere in the cellar. It is only safe to attempt this if you grab the lantern hanging out front. The cook is an asshole playing a joke and of course he locks you down there, and here's how you must get out:
1. Fight off silly enemies.
2. Find magical amulet.
3. Obtain bottle from the top of a pile of barrels (If your dexterity bonus isn't high enough there's magical moss someplace that can give it a boost)
4. In order to read the runes on the amulet through the swirling colors and patterns, you must look at it through the bottle you found.
5. Upon reading the runes on the amulet, you suddenly surge with temporary strength and can kick open the locked cellar door. The cook is awestruck when you give him the bottle and gladly lets you have the prize-winning giant onion.

Seriously who has the time and patience to figure all this out!?