Game Maker's Garage Forum
Game Maker's Garage => Announcements => Topic started by: WarHampster on March 11, 2010, 11:19:02 PM
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Announcing the creation of a working 3d terrain engine in SilverCreator!
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/previe10.png)
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/sc_3d_11.png)
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/sc_3d_12.png)
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/sc_3d_13.png)
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/sc_3d_14.png)
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/sc_3d_10.png) Coming soon...
Latest: http://www.screencast.com/users/WarHampster/folders/Jing/media/2b54f610-e4ac-466c-b755-c8368de100e4
Old video: http://www.screencast.com/users/WarHampster/folders/Jing/media/cc3cf730-45bd-4027-8d5b-dc5fde9b5093
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Those look like pictures of SilverCreator crashing or something.
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Lol, I'll upload a video in a sec.
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Wow, how are you doing it?
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All will be revealed pretty soon!
Video added to the first post.
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*Impressed*
Looks amazing. :)
-Gan
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why is the screen so small?
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Well the maps are 50 by 50 pixels (I enlarge them when I draw them on the screen), and the algorithm I'm using can't draw a frame larger than the size of the map. I could easily just enlarge the image after it has been rendered but before updating the screen, but that would make things even slower.
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Looks good, but why use SC for this? If you have the knowledge to create a 3D engine, why not do it in a "real" language? It seems like this is too slow to make any use out of it. ;)
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To push SC to its limits - cheesy, I know :P
Hopefully Mike and I will be able to get it running more smoothly, then this will actually be useful for games.
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New v2.0a6 released, massive scripting speed improvements AGAIN!
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I just ran my engine through the new SC and it's much faster... I think that this, combined with a few optimizations that I have in mind, will get this to a playable state!
So expect news pretty soon after I'm back from vacation (a week from now). Crappy timing I know, but I'm on spring break and am going scuba-diving in Bonaire.
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Whoa. 2 major Sc versions in one day and a revolutionary 3D engine?
Is it Christmas?
I too am going on vacation but I'll see if I can bring my mac along.
-Gan
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Im underwhelmed.
Why push SC when you can actually make something worthwhile with a more powerful language.
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To push SC to its limits - cheesy, I know :P
Hopefully Mike and I will be able to get it running more smoothly, then this will actually be useful for games.
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Im underwhelmed.
Why push SC when you can actually make something worthwhile with a more powerful language.
people always say things like this like its easy to just pick up C and make stuff, its much more complicated and time consuming to learn, sc is so easy to work with,
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Im underwhelmed.
Why push SC when you can actually make something worthwhile with a more powerful language.
What's wrong with challenging myself to make something relatively advanced in a very simple language?
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people always say things like this like its easy to just pick up C and make stuff, its much more complicated and time consuming to learn, sc is so easy to work with,
Im well aware im doing a unit in C at uni, i have a test a 2 weeks.
Theres nothing wrong with it, it just seems like an underkill. Anyways are you using a raytracing engine? If so I imagine I might be able to do something similiar, (albeit much slower) in GM.
Also it isnt a "advanced" as you think it is. However as you said it is relatively compared to what else has been done in sc/gm.
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Anyways are you using a raytracing engine? If so I imagine I might be able to do something similiar, (albeit much slower) in GM.
Now that I'd like to see! :D
Also it isnt a "advanced" as you think it is. However as you said it is relatively compared to what else has been done in sc/gm.
I'm sure Mozart would say the same about the Zorba, but it's still damn hard to play.
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I'm sure Mozart would say the same about the Zorba, but it's still damn hard to play.
Not if your good at piano, which metaphorically WarHampster is.
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Essentially that's my point. ;D This is probably the most advanced thing Hammy's made yet.
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Theres nothing wrong with it, it just seems like an underkill. Anyways are you using a raytracing engine? If so I imagine I might be able to do something similiar, (albeit much slower) in GM.
Also it isnt a "advanced" as you think it is. However as you said it is relatively compared to what else has been done in sc/gm.
It's a raycasting heightmap engine, AKA a voxel engine. I know nothing about GM but if a 2d tile based affair lags as much as Silver's newest RPG engine does, I doubt that this would be possible in it.
I'm very sorry, my next release will be written entirely in c++ and will feature bumpmapping, speculars, and shaders. ::)
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Hey Hammy, if you get a chance could you post a screencast of the RSRPGE so I can see how laggy it is? It's laggy for me when it loads the attack icon sprites for the first time, but it's not too bad for the most part.
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It's a raycasting heightmap engine, AKA a voxel engine. I know nothing about GM but if a 2d tile based affair lags as much as Silver's newest RPG engine does, I doubt that this would be possible in it.
I'm very sorry, my next release will be written entirely in c++ and will feature bumpmapping, speculars, and shaders. ::)
Now THATS something to look forward too ;D
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That went over my head. :) What's raycasting?
-Gan
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Furthermore who is Zorba? Isn't that the villain from ThunderCats?
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That went over my head. :) What's raycasting?
-Gan
It's a system for handling 3D by simulating the path light takes to the eye. I think. :P
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Pretty much... In terms of 3d graphics raycasting just refers to drawing rays from a viewpoint at regular intervals onto a 2d grid to check for collisions with objects. Classic examples of games that used raycasting engines are Doom and Marathon. Obviously this engine is a lot more complicated than that, but that's the basic idea.
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Pretty much... In terms of 3d graphics raycasting just refers to drawing rays from a viewpoint at regular intervals onto a 2d grid to check for collisions with objects. Classic examples of games that used raycasting engines are Doom and Marathon. Obviously this engine is a lot more complicated than that, but that's the basic idea.
Spot on. Raytracing is also one of the easier engines to code (albeit pretty damn hard). An actual vertex oriented pixel shader engine in SC would be pretty awesome.
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Can you direct me to a book that would help me build a solid foundation in 3d math and programming? Preferably something that doesn't assume I've already mastered 3d geometry and calculus. I want to move on and would like to have a textbook to refer to rather than sifting through online articles. Amazon returned lots of choices for me but I'd like the opinion of someone who's doing this stuff in school.
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This looks and sounds so awesome. If you guys find anything good, I'd love to tag along.
-Gan
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Can you direct me to a book that would help me build a solid foundation in 3d math and programming? Preferably something that doesn't assume I've already mastered 3d geometry and calculus. I want to move on and would like to have a textbook to refer to rather than sifting through online articles. Amazon returned lots of choices for me but I'd like the opinion of someone who's doing this stuff in school.
Im not doing this stuff in school, not yet at least. Theres no such thing as 3d math without calculus and geometry.
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Theres no such thing as 3d math without calculus and geometry.
I know that first hand, I meant that I'm looking for a book that doesn't skip stuff because it assumes you already know it.
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I know that first hand, I meant that I'm looking for a book that doesn't skip stuff because it assumes you already know it.
I seriously doubt youd be able to find one, however for all the 3d things ive ever done ive used a premade engine to render things for me. I believe directx or opengl can be made to do this. However im not sure. Programming actual 3d engines is a massive feat even for more than one person, I dont think you could find a comprehensive book, and if you could it would be the size of a small dog.
EDIT: http://www.spacesimulator.net/tut1_3dengine.html
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I found some stuff that I'll be checking out.
Back on the topic of SC3D, I'm that sure my in-productivity has been noticed (and attributed to all the school work that I have, hopefully ;)). Anyway the next version will be significantly more advanced thanks to the new versions of SC, it will mainly feature a higher resolution and sloped terrain.
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I've been getting some very interesting results:
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/alpha_10.png)
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/alpha_11.png)
But I have more bugs and speed issues as well. I'm going to go back to the last stable version and make a game with it instead of writing more features... I've gotten to the point where I don't really understand what I'm doing, and I don't want to stumble around when I could be making use of the engine that I have a pretty firm grasp on.
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http://www.screencast.com/users/WarHampster/folders/Jing/media/2b54f610-e4ac-466c-b755-c8368de100e4
Ohhhhhh yeah.
*goes back to studying*
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That's awesome! :D
Ah, the possibilities are endless... This is amazing stuff, you're treading waters I'm not advanced enough to go in. :) Can't wait to see a full window version. (Or take a peek in your source ;) )
-Gan
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Thanks :)
We should make a bare-bones arena FPS, this engine + your networking knowledge = SC gets a billion users!
Now that the framerate for the basic engine isn't an issue, I can move on to more advanced stuff, namely models and lighting.
I'm sure you can all now tell why I'm begging Mike to allow sprites and painted stuff to clip, a wolfenstein clone would not be too far-fetched.
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Thanks :)
We should make a bare-bones arena FPS, this engine + your networking knowledge = SC gets a billion users!
Now that the framerate for the basic engine isn't an issue, I can more on to more advanced stuff, namely models and lighting.
I'm sure you can all now tell why I'm begging Mike to allow sprites and painted stuff to clip, a wolfenstein clone would not be too far-fetched.
This is actually is a good idea but I'm finding it increasingly harder to code in Sc. Sort of grueling in fact. I think of what I want to make, think of how I want to make it and go to make it. In Obj-C I have it done in record speed, in Sc I find out that it doesn't have certain things like... classes(Extremely needed, especially to be used in arraylists). Or syntax highlighting(Not too needed but useful)...
It'd be much easier to give this a go in Obj-C, though if somehow Mike would spontaneously add in those features... ;)
-Gan
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Bah, SC isn't so bad... there are ways to design stuff similarly to C programs. For example, in SC3D the controls don't suffer from SC's signature lag; this is because I have a main loop that polls the keyboard for input every tick and then immediately performs the correct logic and renders. If you want OOP in SC then just use RealBasic, it would be the same thing.
In regard to syntax highlighting, you should make a "SC IDE" that does stuff like that :P
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I'm sure you can all now tell why I'm begging Mike to allow sprites and painted stuff to clip, a wolfenstein clone would not be too far-fetched.
So err, what do you need again? Just to be able to draw behind sprites?
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Yeah, that way I can have "billboard" graphics in games made with this. A precedence parameter on drawing commands similar to the one on sprites would do it, sprites of a higher number would be drawn on top and sprites of a lower number would be drawn behind.
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The best I could do would probably be one where you could select from these choices:
1. Draw sprites behind painting (current method)
2. Draw sprites in front of painting
3. Draw sprites somewhere in the middle of painting, using a special command RENDERSPRITES.
2 and 3 can both be achieved with RENDERSPRITES, just call it at the top of the Paint event for 2 and somewhere in the middle for 3. For the old behavior, don't call it at all (or you can call it at the end if you want, but it's not necessary).
Basically with #2 you could paint some stuff, then draw all your sprites then paint some more stuff.
What you could NOT do is paint, draw some sprites, paint some more, then draw other sprites. If that's what you need then that would require even more code. You would have to do something like RENDERSPRITES 2, 3, 4 or pass an number array to RENDERSPRITES. It all gets kind of tricky after that.
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Being able to select an array of sprite numbers to render at specific points would be ideal, but if it would take too much restructuring then I can make do with a RENDERSPRITES function like you proposed.
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For v2.0 I can do a simple RENDERSPRITES command that draws all the sprites. I can follow up later in v2.1 or whatever with the array support.
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Awesome, thanks!
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This is actually is a good idea but I'm finding it increasingly harder to code in Sc. Sort of grueling in fact. I think of what I want to make, think of how I want to make it and go to make it. In Obj-C I have it done in record speed, in Sc I find out that it doesn't have certain things like... classes(Extremely needed, especially to be used in arraylists). Or syntax highlighting(Not too needed but useful)...
It'd be much easier to give this a go in Obj-C, though if somehow Mike would spontaneously add in those features... ;)
-Gan
Actually adding classes to SC would be incredibly useful!
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I agree. With classes I may just rethink about an Sc mmo...
-Gan
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dot dot dot
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LOL!
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dot dot dot
More formally : suspension points
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I always am inspired to begin programming in the middle of studying chemistry. Tonight I:
1) Fixed a bug that involved stuff getting drawn above the rendering window
2) Figured out to easily change the resolution
3) Made a fisheye camera effect :)
4) Realized that I have a significant rotation bug :(
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how does it make 3d terrain from a 2d image?
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It's called a voxel engine, meaning that the world is made up of voxels, or volumetric pixels. Every location on the 2D height map is a voxel with a specific height. Basically, the renderer casts rays from the player to points on the map, and then draws them based on their heights.
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can you post a new update screencast with wider viewing area?
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Not making another video, here's a screen:
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/03/78/78/bigger10.jpg)
I'm not focusing on blowing up the image yet... again, that's just about the lowest priority.
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This is officially out of production... SC is too high-level for something like this to work without unacceptably hackish code.
It was a pretty good learning experience and was definitely fun to write, however :)
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NEVAH!
This is too "done" to be given up now.
Listen to the guy who hasn't made a game since 2007 >:(
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It looks finished in the video. What were you gonna add?
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If you don't want to continue could you post the source? I'd love to see. :)
-Gan
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This is officially out of production... SC is too high-level for something like this to work without unacceptably hackish code.
It was a pretty good learning experience and was definitely fun to write, however :)
What's the specific problem? The language is slow, or the language is missing low-level constructs?
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I guess the biggest issues are the lack of multi-dimensional arrays, the ability to create and store images (sprites) in memory, and the ability to read image files.
If SC could read image files then I could load a heightmap to render rather than generating one with my fake multi-dimensional array system. If I could create a sprite based on pixel data and then store it then I could set up a double-buffering system where all the pixels in a scene are stored in a sprite and then rendered at once, rather than the current situation where the scene is displayed pixel by pixel.
I understand that adding features like those wouldn't be in keeping with SC's design.
EDIT -
It looks finished in the video. What were you gonna add?
The ability to render things more complex than giant square pillars ;)
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If you don't want to continue could you post the source? I'd love to see. :)
It's probably really hard to read, I took notes on the math behind things while I wrote it. Maybe.
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I guess the biggest issues are the lack of multi-dimensional arrays, the ability to create and store images (sprites) in memory, and the ability to read image files.
If SC could read image files then I could load a heightmap to render rather than generating one with my fake multi-dimensional array system. If I could create a sprite based on pixel data and then store it then I could set up a double-buffering system where all the pixels in a scene are stored in a sprite and then rendered at once, rather than the current situation where the scene is displayed pixel by pixel.
I understand that adding features like those wouldn't be in keeping with SC's design.
Multi-dimensional arrays have always been planned - I don't think that's outside of SC's design. They're an optional construct.
The ability to create and draw into off-screen images is also useful - but we would need to implement some kind of graphics port idea to specify the destination for drawing commands.
Open Event:
CREATEIMAGE 1, width, height, depth
SETGRAPHICS 1
DRAWLINE 0, 0, 50, 50
CREATEIMAGE 2, width, height, depth
SETGRAPHICS 2
DRAWRECT 20, 20, 100, 100
Paint Event:
DRAWIMAGE 1, 100, 100, (optional scaling etc)
DRAWIMAGE 2, 50, 100, (optional scaling etc)
Paint event/main screen would be port 0, but the Paint event would automatically set the port to 0 for you.
Reading image files could be as simple as:
LOADIMAGE 1, "filename", (optional scaling etc)
Convert an IMAGE into a sprite:
IMAGESPRITE spriteNum, imageNum
Basically, you would have images, and you would have sprites, they would be separate, but with different abilities. Eventually if we go to OpenGL then the act of converting an image to a sprite would be converting it from a regular picture into a texture for fast drawing.
None of this is outside the realm of possibilities for SilverCreator.
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Well, awesome!
I'm currently using the SFML library for some windows stuff, and the rendering is set up in a similar way - you load graphics as an image and then convert it to a sprite for drawing. The way SFML handles frame buffers is pretty elegant, you can define a "render image" which acts as a window (you can render to it), but can then be converted to a sprite and drawn just like any other image.
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I was just looking through this today and accidentally fixed a major bug!
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Do elaborate!
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Well in earlier versions the map didn't rotate correctly, and now it does. Still a useless engine :P
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Well in earlier versions the map didn't rotate correctly, and now it does. Still a useless engine :P
I don't think it's useless - it's actually a good case study for optimization.
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Thanks :)
I'm going to combine all of my SC code and try to make a comprehensive library. If I ever get around to that I think I'll feel comfortable including some basic 3D functions. When you implement the capability to draw sprites on top of painted objects some basic "2.5D" games will be possible.
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