Game Maker's Garage Forum
Game Creation => SilverCreator => Topic started by: GMG Mike on November 18, 2013, 04:22:57 AM
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It would cost $150 to bring my REAL Stupid Whatever license to be up to date. This would allow the creation of Cocoa SilverCreator games. PPC support would be dropped due to lack of resources. This update would continue support for Windows.
If anyone can pledge at least $75 I will pledge the rest. Otherwise I can accept donations via PayPal.
SilverCreator is the only thing I really develop any more using Xojo whatever, and funds are right because I need to pay off my debts, so that is why I am asking for help.
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I can chip in $15 at the moment.
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Have you thought about doing a crowdfunding campaign? You could raise $150 easily and could probably ask for much more to cover the cost of spending more of your time working on SC. It would also be a great way to get the word out.
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Crowd funding is a good idea if you can get your product to look like the boss sauce.
Crowd funding works through rewards and stories. If someone donates X amount they get a certain reward. And it'd be your job to tell them a story about your product that will make them shiver in anticipation.
It can be really hard to do.
I can drop $15 right now and probably another in 2 weeks. That's almost half of the needed $75.
On another note there's always piracy...
Though Mike, if money's an issue and you feel the need to open source it, we can take the initiative to recreate the interface in Java/Obj-C/Haxe/heck even Google Dart and then do a port of the compiler. (wouldn't be as easy as Xojo(real basic), actually depending on chosen language it could be fairly easy(ahem Dart))
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Hey Mike, do you just want to add Cocoa support to the current version of SC, or have you returned to developing SC as an ongoing project? If it's the latter, I'll pledge $20. Otherwise, I think that releasing the source code would be better.
Also... "Xojo"?! Did the CEO have a mid-life crisis and become half-Aztec and half-Chinese or something?
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Like Circuit, I'm also curious if this would mean that SC would return to being actively developed, or if this would essentially be a maintenance update.
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Mike, you put a lot of work into making addons for GameMaker way back in the day. Thanks. I can send you $15. Where can I send it? I'd rather not send through paypal if you have to pay a fee. Email me an address if you can.
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Hey guys.
I would still like to develop SilverCreator actively. The future going forward with Mac OS though, is to have the software running on the Cocoa API. Of course I would still keep working on the Windows runtime as well.
I think the future going forward would be to drop the PPC and Windows XP support (I don't like it, but unfortunately it stands in the way) and work on Open GL Canvas, this will speed up the graphics speed exponentially. I have my MacBook Air set up with Mavericks and my Mac Pro still has Snow Leopard and Windows 7 so we can still support all the Intel Macs, and the latest Windows versions for Runtime, and all Intel Macs for the IDE.
We already have a fast script interpreter and the current bottleneck is graphics speed. Open GL will solve this.
For PayPal donations you can send them as a "gift". This should remove all the fees for me, but if you use a credit card to send the donation then you have to pay a small amount extra but I still get the full amount. The PayPal address is payments@silvernetworks.net.
Hey Al, for regular mail donations, like a check or money order you can send it to my office here. I can cash it with no fees.
Michael Richardson
6020 Jessamine St. Ste 102
Houston TX 77081
Just write "SilverCreator" on the PayPal donation or money order/check and it will go to the REALXojoWhateverSuperBasic fund, after $75 I will fulfill the rest to upgrade the software. Check or money order should be made payable to "Michael Richardson".
A few people asked me about open sourcing SilverCreator. I am still open to this, in a limited form. We could either work together, or you can choose to branch off.
If we work together then, I can share with you (limited to 1 person by Xojo Inc) the license for Xojo after I get enough donations., or you can provide your own license or even share one with me. I can only share the license with 1 person but, more than 1 person can be in the group if the other people have licenses. We can plan out the changes and release the changes together as SilverCreator. If I don't have some time for a while (I am a freelance web developer so my time comes and goes), then I could just delegate the project to the other partners and you all could manage the major releases etc.
I can also release the code to one or more independent developers. The requirements here are that you have a current Xojo license (can't share mine). Also you must release your versions with your own name. You can call it anything, including "Whatever"Creator, but can't call it "SilverCreator" or have the word "Silver" in the name. "JoeCreator" is ok, but "Joe's SilverCreator" is not. If I choose to release to one more than one developer, then you must either be cooperative (group of developers working together to develop new "X"Creator), or you can not name your projects the same as each other. Most importantly, you MUST release your builds as 100% freeware including the IDE and any runtimes. You can choose to support Windows runtime or not, or choose to add Windows IDE, or even drop Mac support, or whatever you want, it just has to be freeware. Asking for donations is fine and I would disclaim any rights to the donations (but not to the base code or trademark SilverCreator).
Hopefully that all makes sense. I would rather maybe set up some cooperative development with other still active RB/Xojo devs. I just need some donations to cover the Xojo license. I don't sell any shareware Mac software and don't plan to, so any donations will help to support freeware Mac software. For example I am considering working on a new Universal version of the old Spy program, it was very popular back then.
Just let me know your thoughts or if you would like to send a donation.
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Hey Mike, I'm so glad you're still supporting this!
I'm most interested in writing interpreters for more platforms (Android, iOS) and extending the I/O and graphics capabilities. What I love about SC is that it is powerful enough to experiment with different algorithms but forces you to be creative in how you implement them... I think it could be a really good educational tool (I taught two elementary school computer classes using it). With a few changes like the ability to render to different graphics contexts (could be implemented as "drawing on sprites") and to read pixel data from bitmaps a LOT more would be possible. Another addition that would increase SC's educational value is libraries - just a simple way to share code. When I taught the classes I had to have everyone start from my project file which caused problems when kids would accidentally write over my code.
Basically I see SC becoming a modern version of Evaldraw (http://advsys.net/ken/download.htm) - great for learning, but also useful for rapid prototyping of game designs or algorithms. I still use SC to mock things up and most of the projects I'm working on now in various languages and platforms I started ages ago in SC. I'd love to bring the voxel engine back where it started as a SC library for people who want to work in 3D.
So that's my vision! If you like it I'd love to work with you on the main branch of SilverCreator.
Sam
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That's a pretty great vision.
My desire is to get it on the Mac App Store.
Sorry Mike, I can't donate anything currently. I gotta pay for classes on the 21st, so after that I'll see what I can do.
I am willing to help with code, porting and even compatibility for other platforms. I also have an infatuation for optimizing to peak performance. So much so that I'm in the process of re-installing Mavericks as a fresh install cause my current isn't snappy enough.
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Hey Mike, I'll send $20 to your office address. Please keep us updated on the status of the funding. I might be able to donate more if necessary.
I don't currently have the skills or the license needed to work with the source code (I haven't studied compilers or interpreters), but I'd be happy to contribute my knowledge of other algorithms, if you need any help. I've studied and used data structures (linked lists, stacks, etc.), and I have ideas for creating a built-in game saving method with integrated cryptography.
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The response here has been great, WarHampster has graciously provided $75 to reach half the goal. Any more donations are still welcome because I can save that money up to use for future license upgrades. I'll just deposit it in my unused checking account to keep until it's needed for Xojo.
Gan mentioned obtaining the program through the "alternative means", Xojo is rather strictly licensed with an online check and everything so that's not really viable. However the good news is that the IDE is now free for anyone to use. You can fully save your projects, debug them, on Mac OS, Linux, and Windows. There is no trial period, it will work forever. You just can't compile them. To compile them you need the license, but the license can be shared with one other person legally.
I do not know if SilverCreator can be put on the app store or not. I reviewed the sandboxing stuff and it might be, a problem.
I also want to update the old Spy program (macintoshspy.com) for Universal support so your donations also help for that. Spy is a freeware program.
Just got a phone call from my mom and that'll tie me up for an hour so I'll be back on later.
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Well, it's fantastic to hear that your project is going well so far. I do intend to offer some support, by the way, as soon as I'm able.
The original Silver Creator was the first place in which I properly programmed a game; it's also where I made the mockup of the tile collision engine I'm using now (I rebuilt it in Processing). I would probably even go back to SC again if I felt that the card-based system would be useful. It's perfect for point-and-click adventures and the like.
Even if it's a long ways off, a more optimized and updated Silver Creator would be a great tool to have.
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Glad the PayPal went smoothly!
Personally, I'm not interested in the App Store, though I'm not against it if it's viable. I haven't worked with RealBasic/ Xojo before but I do have experience writing compilers. I have a Java-Android game framework that cross compiles to iOS that might work as the backend of the mobile interpreter.
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I've seen WarHampster's framework, it's pretty awesome sauce.
I'm gonna download the IDE now. Considering it's free, I have no need to be able to compile. I just wanna write the codes.
I'm sure we can figure something out in regards to the app store. You just gotta get your package signed under the dev license.
Edit: Learned how to use Xojo, made a graphics test:
http://gamemakersgarage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1629.msg23694#new
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Xojo has a sale going on right now so I can save 20% off the upgrade! I'll definitely order the upgrade during the sale. This should give me a year on the license. They did mention Mac 64 bit coming sometime in the next year for Cocoa and that would help SC even more.
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Michael Richardson
6020 Jessamine St. Ste 102
Houston TX 77081
hey mike, sorry i wasnt around when you needed it, SC was a major influence in my life and really allowed me to achieve my life goal of making my own stand alone games. i feel working with SC really exercised my mind, taught me attention to detail, helped me develop intelligence, and gave me an outlet for my artistic skills. right now i own and manage an insulation company and i cant help but think all those years of messing with SC and bug fixing helped me develop the skills that got me to where i am today, i really owe you a donation, is it still ok to send to this address?
theres nothing more satisfying than playing my own games which i do once in a while, and Enforcers RPG is my crown achievement. ive been messing with it recently and have an update coming soon
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I was able to renew Xojo last year during the sale.
Then I got a job with a company for several months, which did allow me to pay off several thousand dollars of credit card debt that I accrued during the recession, primarily buying things such as "food" and "petroleum distillates", and then later a new MacBook, when my previous MacBook Pro decided to arbitrarily take a shit and die.
By now the Xojo licenses may have expired, but that only means newer versions are unavailable.
Honestly I think at this point the best option is to ditch the legacy runtime and develop an HTML5 runtime with the goal being broad compatibility with modern desktop browsers.
HTML5 does not have sprites. But it has a canvas, and it is remarkably similar to the REALbasic canvas, except that it will probably run several times faster, because it will hook into some 64 bit Quartz magic accelerated shit on a new Mac, or Direct-Whatever-The-Hell-12 on Windows 10, and Linux... will also work.
And several major release cycles of web browsers have brought JavaScript code closer and closer to the metal. SilverCreator 2.0 has a bytecode system that made scripting 5x faster than 1.5... just converting that to JavaScript without concern for optimization, probably makes it 5x faster than that.
And now there's websockets, although not backwards compatible with SilverCreator's easy sockets (also used in GMOnline, based off the open source REALbasic code "EZProtocol", credit unknown).
SilverCreator presents a limited number of window arrangement and size, the simplest being just a huge, empty canvas, with optional fixed rows(s) of buttons along the bottom, and a free form text area which can occupy half the graphics area.
But you can pick any one of them (except the full sized text screen, obviously), and the SilverCreator IDE lets you import a sprite so easily. And in fact right now, the legacy runtime uses PNG files with masks for sprite storage, which is exactly the format for use online. And it already has the capability to convert some legacy type formats into MP4.
And the BASIC style code, you know the rest. SilverCreator is an IDE, you know what, it's a pretty damn good IDE even in 2015, for allowing the use of BASIC scripting with sprites and multimedia and networking.
To a new programmer having HTML5 and JavaScript shoved at you and being expected to learn that, is similar to being given a Mac in the 90's with a C compiler, and no book.
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Since you brought up making an HTML5 version of Silver Creator, I think you should have a chat with Gan. His HTML5 GM follows the same kind of philosophy and it's already got a lot of good features, including built-in documentation.